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Post Reply Explain Haruhi Suzumiya
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Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17
"Haruhi is Haruhi and nothing but Haruhi"

No, but in all seriousness Haruhi is one of my all time favorites. An eccentric cast of characters based on their tropes that still manage to have depth, in a world where everything could be a fabrication at any time, where an infinite set of Deus Ex Machinas exist in a state where it's almost okay to use them because they're innevitably a parody or subversion like in a Deadpool comic or something...

But if you ask me, the usual gripes about the overused character tropes are unwarranted, as we have no way of proving Haruhi didn't cause them herself... Unless Kyon is actually god, in which case... Nevermind, this is getting complicated already.
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Posted 10/31/17 , edited 6/20/18

Lord_Wunder wrote:


abeltensro wrote:

It was basically a groundhog day scenario that was created by Haruhi not finishing her summer homework and also her dissatisfaction with not being able to spend more time with Kyon.


Except that Haruhi did finish her homework; she explicitly states that she finished it as soon as possible so that she wouldn't have to worry about it later. It was Kyon who didn't finish his. She looped the universe so that the Brigade could have a group homework session, which she probably saw as a 'summery' way to end the break, and so that Kyon wouldn't fail.


auroraloose wrote:

What is this "Kyon is God" thing? I don't see it - at all.


There's a few different interpretations to the theory. In general, it suggests that Haruhi's reality warping powers aren't hers, rather they were gifted to her by Kyon. So basically, he's unconsciously using his powers through Haruhi instead of using them himself, because, as he says in the opening monologue, he would rather be a side character than the lead (although ironically, that made him more of a main character in the long run).

In regards to the "Endless Eight," some point out that Nagato, Asahina, Koizumi, and Kyon all have some awareness of the loop. Nagato remembers everything because she transcends space-time. Asahina confirms the loop as she can't contact the future. And both Koizumi and Kyon frequently experience deja vu. This makes sense for Koizumi, as he can detect alternate realities, but where does Kyon's awareness come from? And why is only he able to solve the loop? It's because Haruhi created with his power, or that he created it himself through Haruhi. That's also why the solution was for Kyon to finally finish his homework because the loop was ultimately his doing. Or at least that's how the theory goes.

There are some other events proponents of the theory like to point to, mostly dealing with the movie and the later books, but I think I've rambled long enough already.


I dunno the Kyon = god theory seems a little far fetched. I can't speak for the later books because I never read them, but in the show they are constantly mentioning how Kyon was the only "normal" person that Haruhi actually enjoyed spending time with (both in a romantic sense and just normally). While Kyon does eventually become a bit of a time traveler, at the beginning of the series hes just a normal guy. Though we do learn in "disappearance" that he actually did influence Haruhi in the past as "John Smith" and that she was actively looking for him when she went to high school. Honestly, it becomes sort of a chicken and egg problem at that point but thats beside the point. If the author's intention was for Kyon to actually be the one with the powers then he probably would have revealed this at the end of the novels. And some of the actual events would not line up as well if he was the one who originally had the power.
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Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17

abeltensro wrote:
I dunno the Kyon = god theory seems a little far fetched.


Well, I never read the later stuff myself, but here's why some people come to that conclusion...

1. Haruhi has no idea she has any powers.
2. Kyon's usefulness is only ever implied, never explicitly explained.
3. Kyon says in narration, before ever meeting Haruhi, that he always wanted alien, time travelers, etc to exist...
4. If Koizumi is correct about the universe only being 3 years old, there's no reason to assume Kyon wasn't the one who created it...
5. This weirdness seems to follow Kyon just as strongly as it follows Haruhi. Even when Haruhi loses her powers in Disappearance Kyon gets home in the end.

And there are plenty of other reasons too. I don't really subscribe to it myself, but I like the idea. There are holes in the theory, like the ShinJin popping up when Haruhi is bored, regardless to her proximity to Kyon, etc. And though you could explain these away with stuff like "Kyon is just projecting his own boredom" that's really just filling holes with more theories, which I think is bad practice...

Thinking about it though, assuming that the powers manifest the desires of the user without their knowing, it would kind of make sense for either Haruhi OR Kyon to have those powers, and looking at it from either perspective makes sense.
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Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17
To set the record straight, I myself am not necessarily an advocate for the 'Kyon is God' theory. I simply find it a fun alternate way of viewing the series.

In regards to the John Smith thing, I would refer to that more as a bootstrap paradox rather than a chicken-and-egg scenario. Actually, the entirety of time travel in this series is pretty much founded on that type of paradox.

And Kyon has sort of played the role of a god before. He saves the world from destruction at the end of The Melancholy, and the fate of the world is once again placed in his hands in The Disappearance. Add to that John Smith's power over Haruhi, and one could argue that he's on the road to becoming a god.

Also, the shinjin thing only screws up the theory of Kyon using his power through Haruhi. But if you believe that he actually gave her those powers, then it could still make sense.
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Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17
Haruhi is an alien

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Posted 10/31/17 , edited 11/1/17

EclipsedArchon wrote:

"Haruhi is Haruhi and nothing but Haruhi"

No, but in all seriousness Haruhi is one of my all time favorites. An eccentric cast of characters based on their tropes that still manage to have depth, in a world where everything could be a fabrication at any time, where an infinite set of Deus Ex Machinas exist in a state where it's almost okay to use them because they're innevitably a parody or subversion like in a Deadpool comic or something...

But if you ask me, the usual gripes about the overused character tropes are unwarranted, as we have no way of proving Haruhi didn't cause them herself... Unless Kyon is actually god, in which case... Nevermind, this is getting complicated already.


That is just an in-story reasoning to justify the nature of something, and I cannot say the reasoning is all that logical, due to the very nature of godhood itself, this time in reference to the author.

The author can write anything, and can therefore justify it by having the story explain it, but I would not say that merely lamp shading this or incorporating that is a foolproof defense against criticisms and gripes.


Take for example Fate Stay Night's visual novel, alongside every pornographic anime ever.


"Senpai, let us have sexual intercourse to replenish our mana, and have fun!"

-A bad paraphrase of Fate Stay Night


Sure, it is "justified", but only because the author written it that way. In any case, the excuse is to have a pornographic scene, and nothing else, as per many a pornographic anime can show us. This is not restricted to pornographic anime, but merely the thought that the author writes everything in such a way because they choose to do so. I think it is important to keep this in mind.

This is not a criticism of the specific anime itself, but I felt a better line of reasoning could be used. Though, I am partial to disliking this particular line of reasoning, as I have believe it could apply to more insidious usage in a fictional medium. I believe your previous comment stated it well.



An eccentric cast of characters based on their tropes that still manage to have depth, in a world where everything could be a fabrication at any time, where an infinite set of Deus Ex Machinas exist in a state where it's almost okay to use them because they're innevitably a parody or subversion like in a Deadpool comic or something...

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Posted 11/1/17 , edited 6/20/18

EclipsedArchon wrote:


abeltensro wrote:
I dunno the Kyon = god theory seems a little far fetched.


Well, I never read the later stuff myself, but here's why some people come to that conclusion...

1. Haruhi has no idea she has any powers.
2. Kyon's usefulness is only ever implied, never explicitly explained.
3. Kyon says in narration, before ever meeting Haruhi, that he always wanted alien, time travelers, etc to exist...
4. If Koizumi is correct about the universe only being 3 years old, there's no reason to assume Kyon wasn't the one who created it...
5. This weirdness seems to follow Kyon just as strongly as it follows Haruhi. Even when Haruhi loses her powers in Disappearance Kyon gets home in the end.

And there are plenty of other reasons too. I don't really subscribe to it myself, but I like the idea. There are holes in the theory, like the ShinJin popping up when Haruhi is bored, regardless to her proximity to Kyon, etc. And though you could explain these away with stuff like "Kyon is just projecting his own boredom" that's really just filling holes with more theories, which I think is bad practice...

Thinking about it though, assuming that the powers manifest the desires of the user without their knowing, it would kind of make sense for either Haruhi OR Kyon to have those powers, and looking at it from either perspective makes sense.


I mean I know why it exists I am just saying that it seems a bit more complex then the obvious answer that Haruhi has powers and likes Kyon. And extension all of the special people surrounding Haruhi also like Kyon which leads to some other events like disappearance. The reason why it works better with haruhi aside from small little events that link her more strongly to the power is that Haruhi clearly gets more bored/annoyed/dissociated etc then Kyon does. Haruhi has a much more abstract way of dealing with things and her emotional states tend to be rather crazy.
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Posted 11/2/17 , edited 11/2/17

auroraloose wrote:

But now that I have, I am curious: Haruhi is the kind of anime ripe for analysis; what are the major schools of thought on/interpretations of it?


I kind of just look at it as what it says on the tin. What if God was a teenage girl who didn't know she was God?

And that's my recipe for a great anime. Here's a compelling question, and here are some appropriate characters sprinkled into a world where we can ask that question, and now let's see what happens. Meanwhile, knowing the question itself, you can play with the idea and consider how it might unfold differently in a different world with different characters. Maybe you have a slightly different question, and can make it into your own LN series.

Which plays into the whole "meme" aspect. Memes are the lowest form of expressive fertility. If something inspires you to come up with your own ideas, but you're boring and stupid and have no talent, you make memes. They're the weeds in a garden; nobody actually wants the weeds, they want the flowers and vegetables and herbs. But you won't have anything if you don't have weeds.


And of course, the necessary sub-question: what was Endless Eight supposed to be?


Tedious and excessive. Which it totally was, so good job, right?
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Posted 11/2/17 , edited 11/2/17

auroraloose wrote:
what was Endless Eight supposed to be?


This is pretty simple, actually. They are all stuck in a time loop due to Haruhi's melancholy. Until she overcomes it, they won't advance to the next day and just repeat it over and over. All of them forget they are repeating the same day except Yuki, for obvious reasons. The goal of the staff was to create the illusion and feeling of Haruhi's melancholy for the audience as they are stuck in a time loop that spans thousands of days in their world. The audience is made to feel what she feels by extension of the endless eight episodes until it is over and they are elated things are progressing once again. Now, whether or not that works for the success of the show or for you as an audience member is subjective, but that was their goal in doing it that way at least.
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Posted 11/2/17 , edited 6/20/18

sonic720 wrote:


auroraloose wrote:
what was Endless Eight supposed to be?


This is pretty simple, actually. They are all stuck in a time loop due to Haruhi's melancholy. Until she overcomes it, they won't advance to the next day and just repeat it over and over. All of them forget they are repeating the same day except Yuki, for obvious reasons. The goal of the staff was to create the illusion and feeling of Haruhi's melancholy for the audience as they are stuck in a time loop that spans thousands of days in their world. The audience is made to feel what she feels by extension of the endless eight episodes until it is over and they are elated things are progressing once again. Now, whether or not that works for the success of the show or for you as an audience member is subjective, but that was their goal in doing it that way at least.


This is reminiscent of an assassin weapon I came up with, that being a pop-up book that stabs one when it is opened. I suppose you could say that it is meant to truly immerse the viewer in the world of said pop up book, but in the end, one still got stabbed, and are bleeding to death.
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Posted 11/2/17 , edited 11/2/17

auroraloose wrote:

So no one has any thoughts? I'm surprised no one jumped in to try to explain the metaphysics of the show, since people love speculating about such. Though I'm more interested in the phenomenology.


I've only seen one episode, but

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