Post Reply Body swap where is memory?
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Posted 1/13/18 , edited 1/14/18
I mean sure I believe body swap is possible, but what happens to our memory? Does the memory comes with the consciousness, or you have to modify the brain structure?
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18
i bodyswapped with an ant
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18
Depends on your approach to the mind/body problem, and where you assume consciousness to be stored.

If you believe memories are a pattern imposed upon a physical object, you'd be best suited to using an object with similar properties to swap with.

Otherwise, you have to create a new encoding method that allows for your medium to contain it, and a reader/decoder to be able to access said code from the material of your choice.

It's simple enough to say, but from there, you start travelling down a rabbit hole...

If you eally want to delve into this though I highly suggest Nagel's essay on if he were a bat..
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18

serifsansserif wrote:

Depends on your approach to the mind/body problem, and where you assume consciousness to be stored.

If you believe memories are a pattern imposed upon a physical object, you'd be best suited to using an object with similar properties to swap with.

Otherwise, you have to create a new encoding method that allows for your medium to contain it, and a reader/decoder to be able to access said code from the material of your choice.

It's simple enough to say, but from there, you start travelling down a rabbit hole...

If you eally want to delve into this though I highly suggest Nagel's essay on if he were a bat..


Well, I'm thinking about this afterlife memory approach. Some newborn has the memory of the past as well as each developing a distinct personality. So maybe the memory and personality "comes" with the consciousness?

If you suggest that memory is in the brain structure than maybe consciousness is possible to alter the brain's structure to develop this memory. This is from the afterlife theory.

Although, as you've suggested, during the initial swap we'd probably lose all memories in regard to self identity except the fact that we exist. This is really hard to say, as it's never been done before in successfully swapping a consciousness. But as most movies and I can't tell you what manga suggests, you retain the memory from your previous self after the swap.

If you retain the memory, cool, swapping could be fun, if you don't, ack it could be quite brutal. It is recently discovered that we have a long and short term memory. But even if we do swap the short term memory we still can't access the long term memory because they would be blocked. That doesn't mean we can't have our childhood memory stored in the short term memory.
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18
You know what.... If you did Body swap, how do you even keep your memories?

maybe you would just have muscle memory from the original.

Now if we did an actual brain transplant, then we can truly see
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18

Humms wrote:

You know what.... If you did Body swap, how do you even keep your memories?

maybe you would just have muscle memory from the original.

Now if we did an actual brain transplant, then we can truly see


Well, the short term memory exists within a time frame of well, 1~2 min? But after body swap if you ask where my cat went I probably won't have an answer.

No brain transplant, I wouldn't apply a flawed method, it needs to be perfect
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18
Funny enough but if only your consciousness moved you would still have the codified memories and excitatory patterns marked in the neurons and DNA of the "landing pad"(brain). This comes from studying the affect of tumors and brain injury.

Now the sticky part is deciding how you define "you" if YOU comes from your memories... we could all be swapping and nothing would be different.

However if there is some is an external motivator things can get interesting. As in the urge to choose left vs right given a choice to make a turn (and no GPS). This leaves decision trees that lead to other outcomes. Swap back and you end up going wow WHY did I choose left? But retain all the consequences (sensory inputs,emotions and memories) afterwards.

Now I have to tip my hat to serifsansserif for raising a serious point regarding inter-species swapping. Sagan puts it rather well translating for the reader what it may be life for.. a fish... a bird... a dog... or a primate. The shift and change in brain structures and volumes affect where the emphasis of sensory input, urges vs memory. Given the size and shape of a fish brain... there is only so much you can get done. Kind of like inevitable failure of trying to get the new gears of war to work in an old school cartridge Nintendo.
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18
theory suggests we swap memories as well as body, however some cases it does not. guess it depends on the sect and the religion/culture practice. some native Americans believe we swap the body, memories and soul with an animal if done correctly, and, if not careful we could get trapped in said situation. thus why the taboo came out of looking one in the eye. however, some believe it's just the body and everything else travels. however cartoons teach us the memory goes into the other person, including the soul. so, I'm going with what I was taught from my people, about shape shifting or body swapping as others call it. where we shift into another person/flesh (animal) and become that creature with memories and soul intact.
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18

fredreload wrote:

Well, I'm thinking about this afterlife memory approach. Some newborn has the memory of the past as well as each developing a distinct personality. So maybe the memory and personality "comes" with the consciousness?

If you suggest that memory is in the brain structure than maybe consciousness is possible to alter the brain's structure to develop this memory. This is from the afterlife theory.

Although, as you've suggested, during the initial swap we'd probably lose all memories in regard to self identity except the fact that we exist. This is really hard to say, as it's never been done before in successfully swapping a consciousness. But as most movies and I can't tell you what manga suggests, you retain the memory from your previous self after the swap.

If you retain the memory, cool, swapping could be fun, if you don't, ack it could be quite brutal. It is recently discovered that we have a long and short term memory. But even if we do swap the short term memory we still can't access the long term memory because they would be blocked. That doesn't mean we can't have our childhood memory stored in the short term memory.


Ahhhhh.... So not a scientific/philosophical answer...

then look into the Akashic Record. Interesting concept, but meh...

EDIT: you know what? don't search it on your own. It's typically got some VERY strange pseudoscience and religious cult crap attached.

What it basically is, is what you see it portrayed as in many an anime title: a memory of all of humankind and the past. The idea being that you can access it and pull out information. It's funky. Psychologist Karl Jung had a few things to explain about the collective unconscious as well, though Jung.. It's a tough one to justify or a position to explain. Especially when most psychology today tries (and doesn't do a great job at), answering things scientifically, which in turn means it takes a physicalism approach (i.e. memories are just synapses firing in the brain, depression is a chemical imbalance, etc). Nagle's video above warns greatly about how reductionism isn't a good approach, but spiritualism may be a bit worse...

There's also theories about reincarnation that vary. Some people believe in a 1 - 1 reincarnation, that your "soul" in a singular thing and continues on being reincarnated.

the other thought on the matter is that "souls" are like water. When someone is alive they're unique individual droplets, but when someone dies, they rejoin a "stream" and then it's impossible to separate out that one droplet again. Instead little bits of that droplet intermingle with other droplets and when they go through reincarnation, you get new droplets or souls wholly unique unto themselves but consisting of parts of preexisting droplets.
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/15/18
I would think the best way to body swap would be to cut open your head, and take the brain out. Then do this to the other person. Doing this may leave bits of brain tissue behind in the person's skull though. I don't think it'd be possible to fully body swap. I mean even if you could function with your brain in another person's body. I think the motor skills, and habits your brain was used to doing would be greatly slowed at first, and you might have past memories, but would need to relearn many simple things.

You'd need to learn to walk with the new body, drive, pick stuff up, etc. It probably wouldn't take long though.

Also since I don't think it'd be possible to completely cut a brain out perfectly, you may keep some memories from the person you switched with. So you'd have some of the person left in you still.

I'd imagine a surgery like this would be extremely deadly, and have little point other than to maybe prolong life, or simply see if it could be done.

The other idea to doing body swaps is through the body switch chamber tropes. I think this sort of thing would destroy your soul, and personality. I think it'd be impossible to transfer your ideas and life to someone else through a teleportation. It would just be impossible. So surgery is the way to go for this.
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Posted 1/14/18 , edited 1/14/18

serifsansserif wrote:


fredreload wrote:

Well, I'm thinking about this afterlife memory approach. Some newborn has the memory of the past as well as each developing a distinct personality. So maybe the memory and personality "comes" with the consciousness?

If you suggest that memory is in the brain structure than maybe consciousness is possible to alter the brain's structure to develop this memory. This is from the afterlife theory.

Although, as you've suggested, during the initial swap we'd probably lose all memories in regard to self identity except the fact that we exist. This is really hard to say, as it's never been done before in successfully swapping a consciousness. But as most movies and I can't tell you what manga suggests, you retain the memory from your previous self after the swap.

If you retain the memory, cool, swapping could be fun, if you don't, ack it could be quite brutal. It is recently discovered that we have a long and short term memory. But even if we do swap the short term memory we still can't access the long term memory because they would be blocked. That doesn't mean we can't have our childhood memory stored in the short term memory.


Ahhhhh.... So not a scientific/philosophical answer...

then look into the Akashic Record. Interesting concept, but meh...

EDIT: you know what? don't search it on your own. It's typically got some VERY strange pseudoscience and religious cult crap attached.

What it basically is, is what you see it portrayed as in many an anime title: a memory of all of humankind and the past. The idea being that you can access it and pull out information. It's funky. Psychologist Karl Jung had a few things to explain about the collective unconscious as well, though Jung.. It's a tough one to justify or a position to explain. Especially when most psychology today tries (and doesn't do a great job at), answering things scientifically, which in turn means it takes a physicalism approach (i.e. memories are just synapses firing in the brain, depression is a chemical imbalance, etc). Nagle's video above warns greatly about how reductionism isn't a good approach, but spiritualism may be a bit worse...

There's also theories about reincarnation that vary. Some people believe in a 1 - 1 reincarnation, that your "soul" in a singular thing and continues on being reincarnated.

the other thought on the matter is that "souls" are like water. When someone is alive they're unique individual droplets, but when someone dies, they rejoin a "stream" and then it's impossible to separate out that one droplet again. Instead little bits of that droplet intermingle with other droplets and when they go through reincarnation, you get new droplets or souls wholly unique unto themselves but consisting of parts of preexisting droplets.


I agree with the soul returning to the stream, but I don't think it intermingles, rather, you retain the original identity throughout the reincarnation. How my personality is in my current life will be how my personality will be in the future. An interesting idea will be, right handed vs left handed. Is it the brain's structure that makes you right or left handed, or is it the consciousness?

P.S Thanks for taking a liking in this topic, you definitely have much more knowledge than me
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Posted 1/16/18 , edited 1/17/18
Well we will all find out soon enough when they start trying to stuff human minds into robots
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Posted 1/19/18 , edited 1/20/18
Well, naturally if the interior make-up or chemical design of the human specimen could be somehow transferred to a different body, like the brain and all that, then all the other psychological components like the mind, conscience, cognition, etc. would automatically be transferred to that body as well (at least that's how I picture it) seeing how it is not the body that makes the individual who he/she is from within, but the brain/mind, etc. In other words, it wouldn't matter what the body is, as long as it is a body that can construct all the internal framework of the individual.
Posted 1/20/18 , edited 1/20/18


It comes from neuron synapses going off into a part of your brain, I can't recall the areas name. I think it's entirely possible to keep your stored memories during a body swap process.
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Posted 1/27/18 , edited 1/27/18

llunga wrote:



I think it's entirely possible to keep your stored memories during a body swap process.


Wait, how? I thought the memory is based on the brain structure not the electrical synapses pattern?

Hmm, they were able to install false memory which I believed to be my own in my sleep. That I believed to be doing something for 7 years. But when I woke up I "realized" that memory is not real. Of course I had to load in this memory in my sleep, meaning I had to think about it during my sleep when they asked me the question, where they replaced my normal load with some other load. My gender information is kept intact though, FRED IS A MALE D:. That's because it's kept on the right hemisphere

P.S Now, to grown an empty vessel, or to 3D print one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9OBbsLYGOE
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