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The Rising of the Shield Hero Discussion

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Posted 29 days ago , edited 28 days ago

heysteve24 wrote:

So how many episodes is shield hero set for anyone know? is it 24?


25..according to ANN article and per the official website
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

Silentveil wrote:


flightform wrote:

dayum, what a contest for lamest excuse on slavery, looking forward to see who would win


RMikami wrote:He needs a solution right away.
that's where i personally have The Problem with whole story and it's author

buying sickly child-slave as your only counter for world-ending hordes of monsters against whom regular armies and kingdoms are struggling?

/play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNR2EpS0jw
Duu-uumb Waa-a-ays to Dieee
sooo many dumb waaays to diiiieee

after which i follow this manga and anime for lulz only, without any serious notion


Thank you for pointing out the inconsistencies with this entire thing. It's amazingly stupid in places where it tries to be smart, and I like to think it's because they are rushing through. Still it's illogically as hell, you are trying to save the world and you pick the sickly child to go with you. It wasn't like he even bother to look in the other cages, so of course, this makes no sense ...even if he had limited funds.


Yes, because people who are in bad situations think totally logically all the time and aren't swayed by emotions at all.

Just because the anime didn't take the time to show us looking at every slave doesn't mean he didn't look around. Most of the other cages didn't have anything covering them so he could've seen what was in them pretty easily.

A small sick child with a 'mental disorder' cost him 30 + 1 pieces of silver. (Nice Judas reference BTW-for those who don't know Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver- idk if that's been pointed out already or not) How much do you think it would have cost him for someone who was more capable? We know he had six more silvers to buy equipment and at least a few coppers after that for food. Then that night they slept in the forest so he may not have had enough left to even get a room. Besides that I kind of get the impression that the slaver wanted him to buy the girl. He did somehow get the idea beforehand that SH was going to buy her so he maybe he sold her to him for extra cheap for some unknown reason that hasn't been revealed to us yet.

They also gave us a pretty strong hint that even if he didn't directly remember her from his dream he might have felt some kind connection to her. And in a world where he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone something like that could mean a lot.

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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

flightform wrote:

dayum, what a contest for lamest excuse on slavery, looking forward to see who would win


RMikami wrote:He needs a solution right away.
that's where i personally have The Problem with whole story and it's author

buying sickly child-slave as your only counter for world-ending hordes of monsters against whom regular armies and kingdoms are struggling?

/play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNR2EpS0jw
Duu-uumb Waa-a-ays to Dieee
sooo many dumb waaays to diiiieee

after which i follow this manga and anime for lulz only, without any serious notion


Most traditional excuse for slavery: I beat you in battle. Submit and live or resist and die.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

zkeleton wrote:

Yes, because people who are in bad situations think totally logically all the time and aren't swayed by emotions at all.

Just because the anime didn't take the time to show us looking at every slave doesn't mean he didn't look around. Most of the other cages didn't have anything covering them so he could've seen what was in them pretty easily.

A small sick child with a 'mental disorder' cost him 30 + 1 pieces of silver. (Nice Judas reference BTW-for those who don't know Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver- idk if that's been pointed out already or not) How much do you think it would have cost him for someone who was more capable? We know he had six more silvers to buy equipment and at least a few coppers after that for food. Then that night they slept in the forest so he may not have had enough left to even get a room. Besides that I kind of get the impression that the slaver wanted him to buy the girl. He did somehow get the idea beforehand that SH was going to buy her so he maybe he sold her to him for extra cheap for some unknown reason that hasn't been revealed to us yet.

They also gave us a pretty strong hint that even if he didn't directly remember her from his dream he might have felt some kind connection to her. And in a world where he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone something like that could mean a lot.


You seem to miss the point entirely. His funds and slave options are irrelevant to this idea.

They're saying the idea of buying a sickly child in hopes of being the deciding factor in saving the world is ridiculous when there is an entire kingdom and other more capable heroes struggling with this problem. It's saying you can't look at this move with moral justification, or an ambitious means to a brighter future and keep a straight face.

------

It's part of something I had been considering myself when people ask what choice did he have. What part of his situation makes him think he's close to making a difference? He doesn't know the threat he's looking at beyond it being an overwhelming competition with many important players. He doesn't know that any decision he could make would end in victory. He doesn't know that victory wouldn't be accomplished without him entirely. Anyone that claims to know this answer is basing it off of how this particular author chooses to play god. That isn't relevant to a current rational reality. He makes an immoral decision to buy a slave and force her to make things easier for him. He chooses to set aside morality for ease and lower risk. Thoughts of saving or exploiting her are hard to judge right now and don't change his actions

There are many things he doesn't know and doesn't try. In spite of what some others have said, he's not putting himself out taking care of her by much. He just afforded to buy a slave and outfit her. His herb and medicine trade was doing well. He could have changed the look of his shield and wore a mask in another village to recruit someone there. Times are desperate. Someone would volunteer. The kingdom he started in was oppressive. There's a good chance to be people that want to operate separately and either don't care what is said or are ignorant of him. Even if everything continues to end in failure, dying by your morals isn't a bad way to go. Everyone dies.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

zkeleton wrote:Yes, because people who are in bad situations think totally logically all the time and aren't swayed by emotions at all.
look
it's not a "tactical level" problem with shield hero choices, it's a strategic one: some random kid is presented as viable solution within this story

is this a doomsday event or some kindergarten level dispute about toys?

zkeleton wrote:A small sick child with a 'mental disorder' cost him 30 + 1 pieces of silver.
but that's another problem: "30 pieces of silver"? let's look for some point of reference to understand how much is that

apparently several days or maybe a whoooping week worth of work…



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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

Shenseiken wrote:


zkeleton wrote:

Yes, because people who are in bad situations think totally logically all the time and aren't swayed by emotions at all.

Just because the anime didn't take the time to show us looking at every slave doesn't mean he didn't look around. Most of the other cages didn't have anything covering them so he could've seen what was in them pretty easily.

A small sick child with a 'mental disorder' cost him 30 + 1 pieces of silver. (Nice Judas reference BTW-for those who don't know Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver- idk if that's been pointed out already or not) How much do you think it would have cost him for someone who was more capable? We know he had six more silvers to buy equipment and at least a few coppers after that for food. Then that night they slept in the forest so he may not have had enough left to even get a room. Besides that I kind of get the impression that the slaver wanted him to buy the girl. He did somehow get the idea beforehand that SH was going to buy her so he maybe he sold her to him for extra cheap for some unknown reason that hasn't been revealed to us yet.

They also gave us a pretty strong hint that even if he didn't directly remember her from his dream he might have felt some kind connection to her. And in a world where he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone something like that could mean a lot.


You seem to miss the point entirely. His funds and slave options are irrelevant to this idea.

They're saying the idea of buying a sickly child in hopes of being the deciding factor in saving the world is ridiculous when there is an entire kingdom and other more capable heroes struggling with this problem. It's saying you can't look at this move with moral justification, or an ambitious means to a brighter future and keep a straight face.

------

It's part of something I had been considering myself when people ask what choice did he have. What part of his situation makes him think he's close to making a difference? He doesn't know the threat he's looking at beyond it being an overwhelming competition with many important players. He doesn't know that any decision he could make would end in victory. He doesn't know that victory wouldn't be accomplished without him entirely. Anyone that claims to know this answer is basing it off of how this particular author chooses to play god. That isn't relevant to a current rational reality. He makes an immoral decision to buy a slave and force her to make things easier for him. He chooses to set aside morality for ease and lower risk. Thoughts of saving or exploiting her are hard to judge right now and don't change his actions

There are many things he doesn't know and doesn't try. In spite of what some others have said, he's not putting himself out taking care of her by much. He just afforded to buy a slave and outfit her. His herb and medicine trade was doing well. He could have changed the look of his shield and wore a mask in another village to recruit someone there. Times are desperate. Someone would volunteer. The kingdom he started in was oppressive. There's a good chance to be people that want to operate separately and either don't care what is said or are ignorant of him. Even if everything continues to end in failure, dying by your morals isn't a bad way to go. Everyone dies.


Dying by your morals is fine so long as you don't drag anyone else down with you, because then you've trashed your morals

flightform is right but they also know they're deliberately missing the point.

The point is to manufacture a situation where a damaged hero gets to work with a damaged child in an unsavoury situation by distasteful means and through some set of trials and tribulations emerge strongly bonded (or something I've no idea how things will pan out)

if you refuse to believe that set of circumstances could ever come about why are you prepared to believe that someone could be summoned into a parallel world.

What's actually important to me is what kind of person he is now and how he'll end up. I have my views on that others have theirs.

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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

zkeleton wrote:


Silentveil wrote:


flightform wrote:

dayum, what a contest for lamest excuse on slavery, looking forward to see who would win


RMikami wrote:He needs a solution right away.
that's where i personally have The Problem with whole story and it's author

buying sickly child-slave as your only counter for world-ending hordes of monsters against whom regular armies and kingdoms are struggling?

/play: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJNR2EpS0jw
Duu-uumb Waa-a-ays to Dieee
sooo many dumb waaays to diiiieee

after which i follow this manga and anime for lulz only, without any serious notion


Thank you for pointing out the inconsistencies with this entire thing. It's amazingly stupid in places where it tries to be smart, and I like to think it's because they are rushing through. Still it's illogically as hell, you are trying to save the world and you pick the sickly child to go with you. It wasn't like he even bother to look in the other cages, so of course, this makes no sense ...even if he had limited funds.


Yes, because people who are in bad situations think totally logically all the time and aren't swayed by emotions at all.

Just because the anime didn't take the time to show us looking at every slave doesn't mean he didn't look around. Most of the other cages didn't have anything covering them so he could've seen what was in them pretty easily.

A small sick child with a 'mental disorder' cost him 30 + 1 pieces of silver. (Nice Judas reference BTW-for those who don't know Judas betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver- idk if that's been pointed out already or not) How much do you think it would have cost him for someone who was more capable? We know he had six more silvers to buy equipment and at least a few coppers after that for food. Then that night they slept in the forest so he may not have had enough left to even get a room. Besides that I kind of get the impression that the slaver wanted him to buy the girl. He did somehow get the idea beforehand that SH was going to buy her so he maybe he sold her to him for extra cheap for some unknown reason that hasn't been revealed to us yet.

They also gave us a pretty strong hint that even if he didn't directly remember her from his dream he might have felt some kind connection to her. And in a world where he doesn't feel like he can trust anyone something like that could mean a lot.



Most of the emotions in a bad situation is directed towards getting out of it....in rational ways or not.

How does taking on a sickly little girl get him out of anything?

Heck, she looked like she was about to keel over and die at any moment ....so ....he just took 30 +1 pieces of silver and wasted it when he didn't have that much to begin with. Yup, that makes even more sense. Did he really look at the other cages? I mean, are you telling me there was no better choices than a sickly girl ...then considering how he made his money ...wouldn't it had made more sense for him to go gain enough money to buy something he could actually use.

I mean what did the slaver tell him ..Demi-humans aren't great for fighting but for doing chores. Yup, let's be really emotional and go for the more useless of all the creatures there. Now we are going to that dream that ...as an excuse ...didn't you just say he did it out of emotional idiocy a moment again.

Pick a story.

If he had chosen for that reason, the anime needs to make it a lot stronger impression. Otherwise, it comes off once again as something stupid and a huge plot hole that this anime seems to be having a quite a few problems with. It's giving him time to make rational decisions, but running everything as if he had no choice when ...there are other options.

(Buying a slave ....not thinking clearly, but can pay off because of no betrayal to worry about ....buying a sick slave girl ...equals to not thinking at all...because she might die and be too weak to even help him fight.)



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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

borderliner wrote:

Dying by your morals is fine so long as you don't drag anyone else down with you, because then you've trashed your morals

flightform is right but they also know they're deliberately missing the point.

The point is to manufacture a situation where a damaged hero gets to work with a damaged child in an unsavoury situation by distasteful means and through some set of trials and tribulations emerge strongly bonded (or something I've no idea how things will pan out)

if you refuse to believe that set of circumstances could ever come about why are you prepared to believe that someone could be summoned into a parallel world.

What's actually important to me is what kind of person he is now and how he'll end up. I have my views on that others have theirs.

I wasn't mentioning dying as a choice, but a result. It was more a stab at anyone that said all of those options are going to fail because unknown to him, someone playing god declared survival wouldn't be possible like that. The main point was there are a lot of unknowns that he didn't try to understand before making morally objectionable decisions. A main point of the story is that Shield was dragged down by everyone around him - not the other way around.


While you're right that it isn't the story the author wants to tell, it doesn't interfere with the considerations of moral acts that has been going around... even if it makes a less interesting story.

And yes, the interesting parts of the story to me really started to pick up around the time he bought Raphtalia. I want to see how far he goes as the lesser evil and when or if he can find a different path.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago
What's that saying? Hindsight is 20/20? Hindsight is notably cleverer then foresight? People today think they already know so much but yet can never imagine what they will know tomorrow?

I recently realized why some of the comments from reviewers and random folks about this series annoyed me as much as they have. It's because they remind me of some of the characters in this story. Honestly some of things said are exactly what some these characters have said or along the same lines. And none of the good ones mind you. Some of the reviewers and commenters have the same stance, outlook, and opinion of that of the king in this series. The more SJ types are very much like the annoying Spear hero and the more oblivious townsfolk and royals in the series. And then you got all those people who are actually trying to defend the princess.

After realizing this, I just had to applaud Aneko Yusagi for her writing cause in the first volume of her LN (even before people could say "Oh she did 'X' because people have been bashing her writing about it) she pretty much shuts down all the social justice heroes and gives a nice slap in the face to the king and princess types. Later on as she reveals the kind of story she wanted to tell, she tears apparent a lot of the arguments people seemed to have with how she narratively used things like slavery, treatment of women, the social stigma of using rape in a narrative fashion and so on. She even perfectly captures the SJ type in the Spear Hero later on after things are revealed and resolved.

I honestly have a bigger and better appreciation for this series now.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

TurboTaco wrote:

What's that saying? Hindsight is 20/20? Hindsight is notably cleverer then foresight? People today think they already know so much but yet can never imagine what they will know tomorrow?

I recently realized why some of the comments from reviewers and random folks about this series annoyed me as much as they have. It's because they remind me of some of the characters in this story. Honestly some of things said are exactly what some these characters have said or along the same lines. And none of the good ones mind you. Some of the reviewers and commenters have the same stance, outlook, and opinion of that of the king in this series. The more SJ types are very much like the annoying Spear hero and the more oblivious townsfolk and royals in the series. And then you got all those people who are actually trying to defend the princess.

After realizing this, I just had to applaud Aneko Yusagi for her writing cause in the first volume of her LN (even before people could say "Oh she did 'X' because people have been bashing her writing about it) she pretty much shuts down all the social justice heroes and gives a nice slap in the face to the king and princess types. Later on as she reveals the kind of story she wanted to tell, she tears apparent a lot of the arguments people seemed to have with how she narratively used things like slavery, treatment of women, the social stigma of using rape in a narrative fashion and so on. She even perfectly captures the SJ type in the Spear Hero later on after things are revealed and resolved.

I honestly have a bigger and better appreciation for this series now.


Calling the Spear hero "SJ" is amusing considering his motivations, but seriously, chill with the spoiler material.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago



Calling the Spear hero "SJ" is amusing considering his motivations, but seriously, chill with the spoiler material.


That's kind of the point why SJ types are labeled as SJ. We get the motivations and reasonings for their actions, but the reason it gets called out as a SJ is because it's misguided and misplaced or they jump to a conclusion without know the whole picture to something. It's also why SJ doesn't just mean "social justice" but also "self justice". And really, I have not said anything specific. Just drawing parallels between what people are raging on and how they mirror some of the people in this series.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

TurboTaco wrote:
That's kind of the point why SJ types are labeled as SJ. We get the motivations and reasonings for their actions, but the reason it gets called out as a SJ is because it's misguided and misplaced or they jump to a conclusion without know the whole picture to something. It's also why SJ doesn't just mean "social justice" but also "self justice". And really, I have not said anything specific. Just drawing parallels between what people are raging on and how they mirror some of the people in this series.


As fun as it may be to try and paint broad generalizations around, you're still describing a character development that hasn't happened yet.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

TurboTaco wrote:




Calling the Spear hero "SJ" is amusing considering his motivations, but seriously, chill with the spoiler material.


That's kind of the point why SJ types are labeled as SJ. We get the motivations and reasonings for their actions, but the reason it gets called out as a SJ is because it's misguided and misplaced or they jump to a conclusion without know the whole picture to something. It's also why SJ doesn't just mean "social justice" but also "self justice". And really, I have not said anything specific. Just drawing parallels between what people are raging on and how they mirror some of the people in this series.


Edit your post with spoiler boxes.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago
No mean to side track from this riveting discussion but is everyone in this world dumb? Its a MMO world with floating exp numbers and menu screens that pop up and of the 4 heroes the one tank is considered the worst? Since there is no staff hero to be a white mage shield bro is the most important one of the 4. Hell in the second epp a sickly 3 foot tall slave girl can dps so i think someone who can face-tank a monster 10 lvls higher than him would be a good partner

Oh and as for the slave thing, eh when in Rome.
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Posted 28 days ago , edited 28 days ago

crackawacka wrote:

No mean to side track from this riveting discussion but is everyone in this world dumb? Its a MMO world with floating exp numbers and menu screens that pop up and of the 4 heroes the one tank is considered the worst? Since there is no staff hero to be a white mage shield bro is the most important one of the 4. Hell in the second epp a sickly 3 foot tall slave girl can dps so i think someone who can face-tank a monster 10 lvls higher than him would be a good partner

Oh and as for the slave thing, eh when in Rome.
.....Well, if you've ever played an mmo, what class does a vast majority of players start with? Usually a flashy damage dealer with minimal utility. Early dungeons might require a tank if you're doing it at level, but if you just grind past the level gap then you can just blast through it with overwhelming damage output (just talking about MMOs in general). Most players that start an mmo don't make it to the end game, and usually bad players at the end game will think that the tank is unimportant. I'm sure everyone here that has played the end game of any mmo will tell you experiences of a bad damage dealer who blames the healer/tank for their own mistakes.

That's what I see when I see these three heroes. Overly confident and immature endgame damage dealers with inflated egos who will assign blame to anyone but themselves when things go wrong.

And to your second point.... Well, there's not a rats ass chance in hell the anime will get this far since not even the manga is remotely close, but..... (Spoiler warning)



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