First  Prev  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  Next  Last

The Promised Neverland Discussion

Post Reply
68093 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
33 / F / UK
Offline
Posted 2/1/19 , edited 2/1/19
This is definitely my number one show of the season
260 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
28 / M / World
Offline
Posted 2/1/19 , edited 2/1/19
Damn... this girl Gilda is a traitor, I thought it was the weird looking kid.
9137 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
30 / M / Canada
Offline
Posted 2/1/19 , edited 2/1/19
Was hoping it wasn't one of the main three... I felt that would be too obvious and sort of a cop-out. I'll reserve full judgment until next episode as to not entirely jump the gun.

The thing I'm most curious about is the fact it seems Mom still doesn't know who the two suspects are 100%. This leads me to believe the conversations about swaying the traitor to their side and saving them still will be what the next episode becomes.

I do like that it's becoming a big multi-layered game of cat and mouse. The kids are trying to figure out who is with them, Krone is trying to get her own spy, and Mom could read Krone like an open book. I do wonder what past relationship Krone and Isabella had... the way she talks to Krone seems like she "cared" for her versus being a "classmate".
29875 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
29 / M
Offline
Posted 2/1/19 , edited 2/1/19
Great episode.
5 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/1/19 , edited 2/1/19

SocialJusticeWarrior wrote:


Buckerss wrote:


So if you want to know how the plan works.



If that is the case then I think Norman hasn't thought it through because




Idk if I should spoiler tag this but just to make sure...





13450 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
41 / M / Charlotte, NC
Offline
Posted 2/1/19 , edited 2/2/19
Wow... this show delivered some truly suspenseful stuff with those slow footsteps clomping up steps, dark hallways! The terror is really coming through now. At this point Norman was becoming my favorite character, the kid is just brilliant. But has a weakness when it comes to his friends, especially Ray.
Emma is just a truly decent person. She is the true mother of all the kids. The 'mothers' might as well be demons (maybe Isabel is) but there's some indication now that becoming a "mom" is just another way to survive in the demon world. They are terrorized as much as the kids are.
Now I really can't wait until the next episode, have a feeling things are about to get violent.
28667 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/1/19 , edited 2/2/19
Oh Norman you clever boy and hah Ray I knew it. Obviously Norman has something in mind given his question to Emma should be interesting how Ray reacts to it. Isabella is quite clever too, though I'm gonna guess the kids end up better at manipulating Krone (what a name) than her.
3049 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
57 / M / Seattle-ish
Offline
Posted 2/1/19 , edited 2/2/19
That was an awesome misdirection Norman!
3960 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
M / UK
Offline
Posted 2/2/19 , edited 2/2/19
I did not see that coming. Thought it was Gilda for sure.
7720 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/2/19 , edited 2/2/19

HowlingLotus wrote:

Was hoping it wasn't one of the main three... I felt that would be too obvious and sort of a cop-out. I'll reserve full judgment until next episode as to not entirely jump the gun.

The thing I'm most curious about is the fact it seems Mom still doesn't know who the two suspects are 100%. This leads me to believe the conversations about swaying the traitor to their side and saving them still will be what the next episode becomes.

I do like that it's becoming a big multi-layered game of cat and mouse. The kids are trying to figure out who is with them, Krone is trying to get her own spy, and Mom could read Krone like an open book. I do wonder what past relationship Krone and Isabella had... the way she talks to Krone seems like she "cared" for her versus being a "classmate".


I really liked that it was Ray, it makes the dynamic between the three of them way more interesting and opens up the prospect of him becoming a double agent and all the information that can be gleaned that way.

Agreed, the next episode will probably either seal the deal or break the spell.

I'm confident that the show will pull it off precisely because Mom doesn't know everything, Ray is playing her to his advantage as much as he's able to.

Krone is fantastic, such a wild card, like a mad spaniel knocking over the chess board

13450 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
41 / M / Charlotte, NC
Offline
Posted 2/2/19 , edited 2/2/19

AnimeObserver123 wrote:

I did not see that coming. Thought it was Gilda for sure.


Well it was obviously; she went and met with the enemy so you're not mistaken there. There were more than one apparently, and we don't fully know yet if Ray is 100% the traitor or if he was setting something else up. The way it was revealed at the very end makes me think there's much more going on...
4503 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
30 / F / The lowest stratum
Offline
Posted 2/3/19 , edited 2/4/19
So I'm caught up.

This thing is solid, and I buy almost everything it's selling: I'm invested in the three of them succeeding, I feel how freaky Mom and Krone are, and I believe the notion that the strategizing and the machinations are complicated. I knew something was up in the fourth episode — that it wasn't so simple as Don or Glida being informants for the adults — but the notion that Ray could've betrayed them was a surprise.

The surprise itself worked well. But the thing I'm not sold on is the scenario: The Promised Neverland has framed Ray as the cold, calculating type from the beginning; having him betray them feels like a cheap trope. Even if, by some contorted reasoning, Ray didn't in fact betray them (which seems unlikely given the face he made at the end) — whatever happens next episode, the show still plugged itself into the trope.

And sure: tropes represent things that happen in reality. The idea that Ray would see the futility of their plan and snitch is plausible, and betraying friends to save oneself certainly happens. The idea that Mom would think to turn Ray is also plausible, as is the idea that Norman would test Ray in this fashion. And I suppose it is a standard twist for this kind of story.

But that's why I didn't want to see it. As soon as the show made Ray cold and calculating, I found it offputting; the ruthless Vulcan thing is just not how people work. Even people who think they're like that are actually being irrational or emotional in some way or another. And the real, honorable reason to be cold and calculating is because you care. Wouldn't it be interesting if Norman betrayed them: surely he's realized they can't survive on their own outside the compound. If he cares about saving humanity — or even if he doesn't — why waste his chance on a foolhardy escape? Somehow becoming useful to Mom is more likely to reap benefits, and we're talking what might end up having to be a worldwide rebellion. That's the kind of long-term thinking the show's ascribed to Norman. It'd be easy for him to string Ray and Emma along. Though perhaps that'd be too Peter Wiggin, when Norman is clearly Ender.

And it'd be a more interesting evil. At this rate it'll likely be easy for them to bring Ray back to their side; I mean, Norman just outwitted him, so Ray has to realize he's got a lot to learn. Norman is more capable than he thought, which ought to make him realize they have a shot at escaping. Instead, if it were Norman who betrayed them, that immediately creates a far scarier scenario: Imagine if, instead of Norman saying "So you're the traitor, Ray," he said, "Mmm. No, it was me. This escape is over." It'd be the difference between an "oh sh*t" and an "oh f*ck." Because how can Emma and Ray beat Norman? Or convert him back? How would Ray fight? Norman's been doing all the heavy-lifting, after all. Having the two of them win Norman back would be wild, and thus have a lot of payoff.

Of course, this is just me. As borderliner says, having Ray betray them creates an interesting dynamic (Norman's conversation with Emma about saving a traitor was already interesting), and the show's been building up to this with Ray's doubts and cutthroat suggestions. It still works fine, and remains solid; it's just that for me it felt flat.
4503 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
30 / F / The lowest stratum
Offline
Posted 2/3/19 , edited 2/4/19
Oh; I should say that I really enjoy the music.

What'll be interesting is to see just how the show implements borderliner's route: did Norman set this trap for Ray just in case, or did he expect Ray to betray them, and set this up with the goal of turning him into a double agent? If it's the latter, that was probably the only way to do it: because if Norman realized Ray would betray them, it's not like he can go up to Ray and say, "Don't do it, man"; he can't trust Ray in the first place, so what would that accomplish? That wouldn't change the calculus in Ray's mind, anyway. What would change it is if Norman played him — which is what actually happened.
1487 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
Offline
Posted 2/4/19 , edited 2/4/19
Man, I love the editing in this series. So after next episode, I think it'll be cool for people to re-watch the first 4 episodes again just to appreciate this stuff. So I don't know if anyone took much note of this, but there's a shot early on of Ray standing in front of the window with this big evil flash of lightning that's just so obvious that because we're so trained for this stuff, the initial reaction is kind-of "Oh, this is TOO obvious, it can't be Ray." And then they start discussing the traitor and you see some shots of Gilda being suspicious but it's nowhere near as obvious or overblown, so that creates this idea of "Okay, it's not the first subject, but this second person seems plausible", which leads into the whole bait and switch thing.

This means that the editing essentially pulls the same trick the show does in leading you towards a conclusion before pulling the rug out from under you for another trap.
4503 cr points
Send Message: GB Post
30 / F / The lowest stratum
Offline
Posted 2/4/19 , edited 2/5/19

Dethhollow wrote:

Man, I love the editing in this series. So after next episode, I think it'll be cool for people to re-watch the first 4 episodes again just to appreciate this stuff. So I don't know if anyone took much note of this, but there's a shot early on of Ray standing in front of the window with this big evil flash of lightning that's just so obvious that because we're so trained for this stuff, the initial reaction is kind-of "Oh, this is TOO obvious, it can't be Ray." And then they start discussing the traitor and you see some shots of Gilda being suspicious but it's nowhere near as obvious or overblown, so that creates this idea of "Okay, it's not the first subject, but this second person seems plausible", which leads into the whole bait and switch thing.

This means that the editing essentially pulls the same trick the show does in leading you towards a conclusion before pulling the rug out from under you for another trap.


I'm not sure this works, because everything else The Promised Neverland has been doing with Ray has connected him to the trope of the cold, calculating type who's callous towards people's lives when it comes to achieving the ultimate goal. It's not a fake out if there's an exaggerated scene or two embedded in a bunch of sincere, reasonable expressions of Ray being callous. It's more likely you're reading into it something the writers didn't intend.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with doing that, as none of us can ever see the intent behind a work; we see only the work itself. If you're used to these kinds of suspenseful stories, and you've developed the habit of second-guessing everything, then it makes perfect sense you'd see the lightning as a signal that Ray's evil is too obvious, and thus he can't be the real traitor. Indeed, nothing is stopping you from enjoying The Promised Neverland in that fashion; when you talk about the show with people, or when you think about it yourself, you're free to adopt that interpretation, because art is something that we participate in. But I'd say that the probability that this is what the show was going for is low, as the thought process you went through isn't nearly as common as knowledge of the trope of the cold, calculating character ending up a traitor. Still, that the show gave you that idea is exactly how we enjoy art, and exactly what art is supposed to do.

This is why, when I say what I think about a show, I tend to talk about what the audience is most likely to see in it and what I'd like it to be signaling — and I try not to discount other ways to enjoy it.
First  Prev  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21  22  Next  Last
You must be logged in to post.