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The Promised Neverland Discussion

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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
Cliffhanger has got to be Ray "hey dumbasses we told you not to go looking yourself". As for Ray himself I'm not so sure I completely believe him, I almost got the sense he was just mad he fell for Norman's trap and wanted to see if he could outwit him back. Surprised he didn't ask Ray how he found out the truth. Unless mama herself told him. Well however it turns out it's definitely getting good.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
GOD DAMN these kids r so smart... Norman and Ray just playing 4D chess. Don is going to get everyone killed. Emma is one scary girl if you get on her bad side.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
Maybe they should've told Don and Gilda the truth about what happens to the kids, so they could fully understand the danger of getting caught. I'm guessing it's Norman at the door though. Next best thing, it's Krone who is batshit crazy but has her own agenda so they could manipulate her against Mom. Don isn't smart enough to do that but I think Gilda is.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
So Ray is a psychopath.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
Uncanny how much I enjoy watching this. In all honesty I think Ray is an even bigger idiot than Don (who is hopeless at this point) for dancing on the knife's edge like he is, and it's pretty obvious that Mom doesn't trust him and is probably going to ship him out. When he give her a bullshit story saying Norman's plan is the same, when she's smarter than that, it's a clear sign she knows he's lying now. They gave themselves ten days to get out but that's where this is sort of pushing the limits of believability... after seeing monsters such as you did, would you stay there another night? And since Ray's known it for a while now I'd wonder how he sleeps at night. Emma & Norman continue to prove they're by far the smartest and without doubt they can escape. Ray is right to say they should try without taking all those toddlers. There's no way you can run at full tilt with a bunch of crying 3 year olds blubbering for mama.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/7/19

BettyColtrane wrote:

Maybe they should've told Don and Gilda the truth about what happens to the kids, so they could fully understand the danger of getting caught. I'm guessing it's Norman at the door though. Next best thing, it's Krone who is batshit crazy but has her own agenda so they could manipulate her against Mom. Don isn't smart enough to do that but I think Gilda is.


That information in the hands of those two dopes is pretty much guaranteed death.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
Dammit that cliffhanger. And Ray just ray. He on everyone and no one's side.

It fun watching norman juggle everything.

and don't get Emma mad.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19

kkmenchi wrote:

Cliffhanger has got to be Ray "hey dumbasses we told you not to go looking yourself". As for Ray himself I'm not so sure I completely believe him, I almost got the sense he was just mad he fell for Norman's trap and wanted to see if he could outwit him back. Surprised he didn't ask Ray how he found out the truth. Unless mama herself told him. Well however it turns out it's definitely getting good.


If anything, Norman handed Ray the advantage. I think Norman jumped the gun too early and Ray can basically say whatever he wants to at this point to save his own skin (while leaving his intentions up to the audience). I think the person at the door might be Emma. I don't think Ray would risk being in the same room as children he's supposed to be watching while they poke around for the 'super secret door'. It would bring his loyalty into question. I have a feeling the house has more than one secret area as well, but that is yet to be seen.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
Not sure I needed that pendulum swing thing at the beginning.

I did like the way it switched between Norman and Ray after their conversation was over. It made us feel them thinking in real time, and the show probably needed to boost our hopes in Norman after that. I might've left it less definitive; that Norman smiled and Ray smirked was just a little too transparent.

Anyway, that was the one way the show could get out of Ray betraying them. Doesn't really do anything to change his image, though; he's as cold and calculating as foreshadowed. I guess this wasn't a bad way to deal with him; kicking the redemption can down the road makes it more suspenseful. Had he honestly betrayed them, and there been an arc right now to turn him back, the suspense would be over. Still, I'd have liked to see Norman thwart the plan, and Emma and Ray have to convert him back.

This is a fun show. I'll forgive it its cliffhangers, because otherwise I don't feel strung along at all.

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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19

In contrast, everything The Promised Neverland has done with Ray has flowed directly to the conclusion that he might do something to ruin their chances because he's cold and calculating.


I'm going to sound like such a jerk right now, but I kind-of love that in a discussion about this show's presentation and editing cleverly twisting things around, the situation ended up at the opposite end of things that the person I was talking to thought it would. Like that's almost too perfect, you know?

Anyways, disregarding that whole thing completely, this episode is great. I'm probably being hyperbolic, but this might be one of my favorite sort-of 'traitor reveal' scenes ever because this entire talk just goes to so many different places with Ray managing to both lose and get on top of the situation to push for his true objective at the exact same time. It's just like "Oh hey, you found the traitor. Okay, good to know, now that that's out there they suddenly just have ALL the power in this negotiation in exchange for playing a riskier game here!" And when the truth comes out, the pieces Ray has on the board to work with are just fantastic, giving the others basically everything they need to realistically make things work while still taking the role of this pseudo-antagonist whose not wrong, but is still working against the best possible outcome against what Emma ultimately wants.

There's a bit of chess advice that I really like, which is that whenever you make a move you should be thinking of the spaces you're no longer guarding when you move your piece. And I think that applies pretty well, here, because Norman sets his trap, he moves his piece, he gets Ray cornered, but in doing so he realizes he's allowed Ray to put him in a position where going any further will just lead to a checkmate in Ray's favor, which gives Ray even more freedom to make moves than he ever had before now that he's lured Norman right where he wants him, only for Ray, himself, to be forced to act in a way that's dangerous to himself, as well.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
This was the weakest episode so far to me. I loved the talk between Ray & Norman but that was it. Emma looks crazy when mad so hopefully that plays a role down the line but this episode just didn't do it for me. That's not saying it's bad because it's still one of my favorite anime this season.

Also, Don is being reckless but this is what happens when lead characters don't tell the whole truth.
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19
The wonderful thing about Winter 2019 anime is that you can easily catch up on them :D
The past 3 days all I've been doing is watching newer season anime like The Promised Neverland, and I'm al caught up in a matter of hours! Also a really good idea for an anime, and love the OP
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Posted 2/7/19 , edited 2/8/19

Dethhollow wrote:


In contrast, everything The Promised Neverland has done with Ray has flowed directly to the conclusion that he might do something to ruin their chances because he's cold and calculating.


I'm going to sound like such a jerk right now, but I kind-of love that in a discussion about this show's presentation and editing cleverly twisting things around, the situation ended up at the opposite end of things that the person I was talking to thought it would. Like that's almost too perfect, you know?



Actually, what I said was that the show was sincere in its portrayal of Ray as someone who would ruin their chances because he's cold and calculating. You were arguing that its portrayal was a red herring. And it was not: whether or not Ray actually betrayed them (which, from the anime, is still up in the air), we're still seamlessly plugged into Ray being cold and calculating, and that potentially ruining their chances. The foreshadowing totally reflected reality. You seem to think that, because Ray didn't flat-out betray them, I'm wrong. But you'll notice that whether or not Ray actually did betray them is actually immaterial; none of the foreshadowing is wiped away. If you continue the quote you cut off, I said this:


auroraloose wrote:

In contrast, everything The Promised Neverland has done with Ray has flowed directly to the conclusion that he might do something to ruin their chances because he's cold and calculating. Unless Ray actually hasn't betrayed them at all — and there's still a little room for that in the anime, though not much — I think it'd be hard for me to watch the earlier episodes without reading all the hint scenes about Ray being off as sincere foreshadowing of what actually happens.


The reason I said, "Unless Ray actually hasn't betrayed them at all [...]" was because I was leaving open precisely the possibility that obtained — that Ray was trying to play the mother. Except there is even an out there, with the "it'd be hard" part: given how the show did things, I will still watch the earlier episodes as sincere foreshadowing of what actually happens, because now Ray's callousness is holding Norman hostage. Nothing about that bolt of lightning said "Ray must inevitably betray them!" Instead, it said "Ray is cold and calculating, and he's going to cause them peril." And that is what happened. So the lightning wasn't a red herring; the only true red herring was the way the previous episode ended, which implied Ray did, in fact, betray them. But even that wasn't that strong of a red herring, because I think it'd be hard for anyone watching to conclude that it was so simple as Ray betraying them.

I don't mind you pushing back against me; indeed, when people do it right, I rather appreciate it. But I think you missed my main point.
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Posted 2/8/19 , edited 2/8/19

auroraloose wrote:show was sincere in its portrayal of Ray as someone who would ruin their chances because he's cold and calculating.
i'm satisfied by amount of effort you expend to frame Ray as a bad guy, a traitor, a liability for their plans and one being in the wrong because he is a natural enemy of:

ehm~ things? like that can't let archetype like Ray slide, yup?

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Posted 2/8/19 , edited 2/8/19
And with that, I'll be dropping this show.
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