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UN Resolution 242
Scientist Moderator
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Posted 6/4/09 , edited 6/5/09

drizza wrote:

digs wrote:

drizza wrote:

digs wrote:

I think Hamas does more Palestinian oppression then Israel does. In fact, Israel doesn't oppress the Palestinians. It isn't oppression to protect yourself from terrorists who have it within their own charter to drive all Jews into the sea and genocide Israel and set up Jerusalem as a Palestinian capitol (Hamas).

Basically making life worse for people is protecting your county? Making life worse for someone breeds no hatred toward your country? So innocent Palestinians should blame Hamas for Israel starving them, still building settlements and illegal roads into their lands saying "Jews Only". Thats protecting your people. Putting Israel citizens in settlements right next to hamas is protecting citizens? Dude nobody will like you if you keep this behavior up.

On another up wow Obamas speech on Israel/Palestine in Egypt shocked the shit out of me. Never heard a president actually criticize Israel and get applause for it. Now the first thing I had to do is turn to Faux News and I was not surprised at all. Nothing but attacks on Obama for criticizing Israel. They stating he criticized Israel too much etc, Palestinians fault etc, the same ole you criticize Israel then your wrong. You must be fully on board with all their terror and hate Arabs/Islam. All day Fox is attacking this man for this. But anyways that was a great speech from Obama and hopefully it will break the one sided view with Israel and bring some real peace.

Israel isn't starving Palestinians and Hamas is the one making Gaza into a concentration camp that breeds terror. In Gaza all Jewish Israelis were forced to leave even if they wanted to stay and live among the Palestinians. They were militantly removed by force by the Israeli Army. There are no Jewish settlements in Gaza, and there certainly aren't roads that say "Jews Only."

Obama says what he wants his audience to here. When Obama was in Israel he basically praised the Israelis and condemned Hamas. When Obama is with Arabs and Egyptians he says what they want to hear. And Obama did criticize Israel too much in his speech, and he did it to gain the support of the Arab nations and Egypt. He flips himself when he goes to different countries, he never condemned Israel while he was in Israel (and if he said they needed to change anything, he wasn't as open and critical of them). Obama wants everyone to lobe him, so he spews what his audience wants to hear at that moment. The only one sided view I see on the issue is in the Arab world where all of them despise Israel and condemn everything they do while refusing to recognize them as a nation. In America most people support Israel, but there are many who are highly critical of it. I would say it's about a 60/40 split in the US and a much higher split in Europe.

How is Hamas starving the people are they the ones blocking all the entrances to Gaza? Are they the ones forcing the Palestinians into one large jail cell? If this was the case also are the Palestinians not smart enough to elect someone who wont starve them? If this was blatant why is there more hatred towards Israel then Hamas in Palestine? So what exactly is Israel doing just minding her own business and she gets randomly attacked from out the blue is that how you see this? If you see it this way your not even in step with the USA even pro Israel supporters know about the illegal settlements and the blocking of all trades routes by Israel. They also know of the Israeli/Jewish only roads built inside of Palestinian land. How can you go to someone else's land and build roads and then be justified?

I dont want Obama to praise Hamas of course he will condemn Hamas in Israel and Egypt. Your response is not surprising at all of Obama being too critical of Israel the same was said about Chas Freeman before he declined his position because AIPAC thought he was too critical of Israel. What is too critcal of Israel? If it was too critical how do you not be too critical of Israel. What Obama spoke was light criticism in comparison of too critical. Denoucing settlements and telling Israel they need to reconginze Palestine as a state which actions shows they apparently dont is too critical in your view? I guess he was to follow the status quo and say it in the most "soft" way in order to still look pro Israel. Really I swear after watching that speech it was already in my head, "Most of the mainstream and Americans who have been constantly being spoon fed one side of the story will most likely think he was being overly critical of Israel." The second I turn to Fox I was right.

Arab countries are recognizing Israel which is why they arent attacking them. Hell some are even friends with them check out Egypt. Which arab country is occupying Israel, having them live in one huge concentration camp? Are Israels lands battered/beat down like Palestinian lol not even close. It is not hard to despise Israel when you see how they can level lands and kill innocent civilians using advance weaponry and try to gain sympathy by using the same tired holocaust excuse to back themselves up. It is hard to not to despise Israel who ignores all international law. Jews such as Uri Avery and others believe many Israelis think they are the chosen people and they are above every other human being. I have heard this stat ement too many times but when you see their actions and what they can get away with around this world why wouldn't they believe this?

Hopefully I will get my internet set back up quickly after I finish moving to respond to you.

Hamas is starving the people by not spending money on the economy and putting most of it into their military aimed at attacking Israel. During the conflict Israel opened the borders to Gaza so that wounded Palestinians could go to Israeli hospitals to get better treatment. However, Hamas went to the borders and blocked the injured so that they couldn't leave. The borders to Gaza are blocked not because Israel is racist and hates Palestinians, but because it is an issue of national security to them. Hamas is the ruling party in Gaza, and they officially state in their charter that Israel will be destroyed. It also preaches a message that isn't Islam, but masks radical terrorist in the name of Islam (which I know isn't what is actually in the Koran). Here are some of the things within the official charter that they hold as the guidlines for the Hamas political party.

'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.

This section states that Islam will destroy Israel and they wrongly interpret Islamic teachings to state this within their charter.

'Palestine is an Islamic land... Since this is the case, the Liberation of Palestine is an individual duty for every Moslem wherever he may be.' (Article 13)
'The land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf [Holy Possession] consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgment Day. No one can renounce it or any part, or abandon it or any part of it.' (Article 11)

Palestine is not an Islamic land, and not all Palestinians are Muslims. 0.7% of those living in the Gaza Strip are Christians. In the West Bank 8% of the people living there are Christian and 17% are Jewish. The majority of the Christians in the West Bank are of Palestinian decent. Is Hamas fighting for Palestinians rights or Islamic rights? Hamas seems more like a religious extremist group that pushes false Islam instead of defending Palestinians.

'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15)

Here again Hamas abuses Islam and states that they exist to wage a Jihad against Jews (not Israelis, but Jews).

'[Peace] initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement... Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam... There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13)

Here Hamas states that they officially denounce any means of peace except only through Jihad.

'Egypt was, to a great extent, removed from the circle of struggle [against Zionism] through the treacherous Camp David Agreement. The Zionists are trying to draw other Arab countries into similar agreements in order to bring them outside the circle of struggle. ...Leaving the circle of struggle against Zionism is high treason, and cursed be he who perpetrates such an act.' (Article 32)

Here they denounce Egypt's relatively peaceful stance with Israel and condemn the peace talks at Camp David.

'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and

kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the

rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind

me, come and kill him.' (Article 7)

'The enemies have been scheming for a long time ... and have

accumulated huge and influential material wealth. With their money,

they took control of the world media... With their money they stirred

revolutions in various parts of the globe... They stood behind the

French Revolution, the Communist Revolution and most of the

revolutions we hear about... With their money they formed secret

organizations - such as the Freemasons, Rotary Clubs and the Lions -

which are spreading around the world, in order to destroy societies

and carry out Zionist interests... They stood behind World War I ...

and formed the League of Nations through which they could rule the

world. They were behind World War II, through which they made huge

financial gains... There is no war going on anywhere without them

having their finger in it.' (Article 22)

'Zionism scheming has no end, and after Palestine, they will covet

expansion from the Nile to the Euphrates River. When they have

finished digesting the area on which they have laid their hand, they

will look forward to more expansion. Their scheme has been laid out

in the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion'.' (Article 32)

'The HAMAS regards itself the spearhead and the vanguard of the

circle of struggle against World Zionism... Islamic groups all over

the Arab world should also do the same, since they are best equipped

for their future role in the fight against the warmongering Jews.'

(Article 32)

These are many anti Jewish comments that are directed towards Jews and Israelis. Clearly Hamas is racist and harbors hate within their own official charter. Now, if you were Israel would you not take measures to protect yourself from an area that has elected these values and launches rockets into your civilian towns even after you condemn and warn them of those actions? Israel has protection for the Gaza Strip because the Gaza Strip is controlled by terrorists who want Israel to be destroyed.

And it's ok to criticize Israel, we all deserve a freedom of speech. However, it's why and how people criticize Israel that is a problem. People falsely say Israel is racist to Palestinians and imperialistic because of Jewish settlements in the West Bank. In reality, these are issues of Israeli national security and their right to the land that is the West Bank. Originally, both the West Bank and Gaza belonged to Israel, and those areas had a majority Jewish population. The West Bank is called the West Bank because it is West of the Jordan River in relation to the nation of Jordan. Jordan and Israel were all apart of the Palestinian Mandated area, Jordan was called "Trans-Jordan" because it transcended the Jordan River, and Israel was the land west of that river. Jordan actually called the West Bank their land, and gave all the Arabs living there Jordanian citizenship when really the land belongs to Israel. I would say that Israel had the right to take complete control of the West Bank and Gaza because before they gave it to Palestinian groups it was theirs to begin with. These are issues of national security for Israel, not Zionist empirical expansion. If Israel was Zionist then they wouldn't be giving their land away in peace attempts that ultimately fail due to the fact that many of the Palestinian government parties call for the destruction of Israel and a complete creation of an Islamic terrorist state run by Hamas.

And the majority of Arab countries do not recognize Israel. Egypt recognizes them, but still many don't, and many believe that Israel has no right to exist. Afghanistan, Algeria, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, and Yemen refuse to allow people who are Israeli citizens and people who even have an Israeli visa to enter their countries. They do this because they refuse to recognize Israel as a legitimate sovereign nation, and they plainly don't want Israelis and people who have been to Israel in their countries.

Essentially Israel is minding their own business. Israel forced all the Jews out of the Gaza Strip and allowed them to have their own elections to hopefully establish an independent peaceful government capable of sustaining itself. However, what happened was that Hamas was elected, and then later warred against Fatah to gain complete control of the Gaza Strip. Hamas started firing rockets into civilian towns and areas within Israel, and Israel repeatedly told them to stop and warned them of military action if they did not cease the rocket fire. Hamas didn't stop, and Israel went in to protect their citizens from the rockets Hamas was firing and refusing to stop firing. Civilians did die, but many of them were used as human shields by Hamas. Hamas hid rockets, bombs, ammunition, and other military supplies within mosques and personal homes. This not only shows their blatant disrespect for Islam, but also their cowardice in hiding military equipment in places of worship and residence. Israel sent text messages, dropped flies, and did their best to remove civilians from bombings and military operations. When Palestinians were injured Israel opened the border so that they could go to Israel and be treated in Israeli hospitals for free. Hamas stopped them from leaving. Hamas is also responsible for the deaths of those during the Gaza military operation. Israel isn't perfect and I am not defending every action Israel does, but I do support Israel as a nation and I stand for the destruction of Hamas so a peaceful solution might be achieved.
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