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Qu'ran Burning Event

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M / Yo Mommas House
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Posted 8/11/10 , edited 8/12/10
Lol I glanced over this thread and really there isnt anything for any muslim to be mad about. This is a free country so if they want to burn Qurans on their spare time let them. But ask yourself is the "physical" book greater then the "teaching" itself? Are you going to lose the teaching of the Quran once some mad man who hates you burns it? No lol you dont mind it, ignore it, these things are meant to get you mad to see how you react. If you react violently like the news media wants it will be reported to show you are a violent people. Hell I look at it this way muslims will make money on the Quran burning day. In this hard economic times if people want to go load up on Qurans at least they buying it and putting it into muslims pocket right? People will be ignorant to something they know and so far the propaganda is immence to some there is no more explaining just let them drown. You muslims must understand there are billions of us around the world the religion is still the fastest growing so you have nothing to worry about. In fact I am glad people are even more curious about reading the Quran because some even convert after they read rather then finding a website to cherry pick out of context quotes. So dont let them get you mad to the point that you have to result to violence because then you fell right into the trap.

But you see I look past this and look at this in a political perspective. I believe Islam has to be hated in order to get American support for a permanent presence in the middle east. America use to be a country who doesn't like to go to war. We use to mind our own business but thats not the America we are now. We are in almost every country around the world and now we are pre emptively starting wars. Even in a broken economy where people are losing their jobs, homes, and lives due to the depression our military spending does not end. Somehow we want to maintain world empire while at the same time trying to fund an expensive health care system and take care of domestic issues. Right now the middle east is a gold mine, and the gold is the amount of oil the the arab countries are getting and that the USA needs. If muslims were really as evil as they say we are then we wouldnt be allied with many muslim nations such as dictatorship Saudi Arabia. We could give a damn about how they treat their people we getting oil from them and thats all that matters. Hell look at the dictator we installed in Iraq? At the time did we give a shit about what Sadam did to the Iraqi people? Hell no why? Because he was a damn puppet, our puppet, but despite that how do you think the people of Iraq felt about the USA supporting such a man like that? How do Palestinians feel when a megaton bomb is dropped on their head made in the USA? How do Pakistanis feel when US military drones kill innocent civilians? Are people even human to get angry anymore because it seems that why when it comes to the middle east. When people are angered when they lose everything and respond with violence somehow we Americans act in shock and awe. The propaganda on Islam is to the point if someone commits a crime or a terrible act overseas is headlines news in America lol? Now why are we reporting other countries crimes in America? But then similar acts in America is just seen as one psycho individual. In fact do other countries report what one crazy white man does in America and try to paint all the white people as being as crazy as that one man?

What if some other country came and installed dictators or meddled in the USA constantly? Evil dicators locking us up, killing us on the street but not giving a damn because that dictator is doing what the foreign country is saying? Would we not be outraged? Would we not try to rise up and change the situation? I have always and always stated here in the USA we are blessed becuase thats never happened to us. So it is hard to relate to other people when they have a foreign country occupying their land, their homes bombed and destroyed. We never been through that but they have. This is why they are so angered. What did the muslims ever do to the USA for them to come change leadership and bomb the hell out of them? These are third world countries and Americans are scared shitless that countries with an extremely weak military will somehow become a world power. Honestly if there was Hindu's in the middle east then Hindu's would be the target of attack. Think about how powefull this propaganda against Islam is. Americans truly believe we are doing the right thing because we are "killing" those evil muslims.

Recently Israeli killed nine people on a gaza aid ship. Now because many of them were muslim it didnt matter to many American people. Now lets flip the script had this been a Jewish Aid ship in which 9 jews were killed by muslims in Iran just tell me how vocal you think the USA and the American people would be? When you have consistent propaganda against something people become accustom to it. Thats what I believe is what is happening to Islam. I believe it is hated only because there is a political agenda in the middle east and in order to get Americans to keep supporting wars, in which our troops are dieing over a pack of lies, no progress is even being made at all, many become permanently disabled. For what? So the military industrial complex to get rich? For the oil contractors? For the banks to keep us owing them as we keep borrowing money to fund these wars? All under the illusion that we are fighting a war in which we started against terror? You would think these war machines has had it but now we are even trying to start a war with Iran. So even if we somehow end Iraq and Afganistan another one brewing right around the corner. And since we hate those damn muslims sure why not? Lets fund these war, lets continue to bankrupt our economy and somehow try to westernize the middle east. I mean really who gives a damn about people within America who are struggling financially? I wonder just how much money the government is spending on these so called "terror equipment"? All these millions of dollars being spent to infiltrate our privacy all in the name of "protecting" us against terror. How many more of our rights must we violate to feel "safe".

But it is suppose to be this way you know why? Because it is said over and over, "If we pull out they will come and get us." With these statement embedded into many of the American minds especially the ones who are scared doesn't have any choice but to support an infinite war, occupation in the middle east while this country is bankrupt. Obama came to office and promised nothing, changed nothing, everything is the exact same as it was with Bush plus and expensive healthcare system. When will my fellow Americans really demand change hell I will never know. Because we always vote the same people in power with the exact same ideas and expect something different. Until we turn into wolves and not sheep this situation will never change. Judging by much of the comments I seen I am correct we have a long way to go.

Right now elections are coming up and I am like "meh". Hell the republicans took over with Bush and we seen what happened. Then the Dems came not much change in that department so lol I dont know what the hell people are expecting. Oh well thats all I have to say on this thread ignorance will continue to rain and as long people drown in it then their situation and the country will never change. Peace and Aslaam Mu Alaikum to all my brothers and sisters.

Ramadan Mubarak!!!!
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Posted 8/11/10 , edited 8/12/10
Yes I am aware that Muslims server in the military which side? You want to talk about the Doctor/Quack the went on a killing spear or the one that dropped the hand grenade in the mess hall.Yes when I was in we had one Muslim male in the unit now if he instead in prayer five times a day and all that trash he would not been in our unit. He never make it out of basic training. Well I have seen the ugly side of Islam here in Atlanta Ga. I do not understand when a Muslims personal life goes to hell they start talking of killing Jew aka (The Viper) I had a crew that laid tile for me and I learned they thought it a good thing the trade towers going down. Never used them again plus I put the world out on them. Do you have a problem with that / Playing field well, I was a SP-5/ Sargent well before you were born. As long as a Muslims believe that Muslim law is the law of the land I will always have a problem with them. I had to work with these to Muslim Electrical engineer, they did not like the fact I was even on the job you guys really hate woman don't you.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Just for your information the US military helped stop the slaughter of Muslim after the fall of the Soviet Union felled. If I see a solder on the street I thank them for what there doing. You see the uniform military collar and the person wearing is military collar as well When peace full Muslims stop the non peaceful one then i will believe that Muslims can live with others. It just seem that bombing mass murders of civilians tend to be the Muslims way to push obstacles out of there way the small wars right now are in country and amazing just how many are Muslims against who ever. Talk about peace imma' get you Sucka that on the bottom of your page, What with Yo Mammos house. And your going to lecture me on what how to act like a thug do you walk around with your hand grabbing the small brain and the other keeping up your pants. Islamic history is honer unto itself. Another words A deal made with a non Muslim can be broken at any-time Correct. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------When Muslims can live by the law of the land i do not care one way or another. If they continue to use force in this day and age just one nuke from a Muslim country I bet Russia and China both will take out as many Muslim counties around them or large populations. and use the strike against us or Israel as the reason behind it. Are you dumb to believe the Russians and chines are just trying to make money and kick dirt at use. Islam is a bigger threat to them then us. pull out a map look That fool in Iran going to set it off all by him self it is just when this year or the next election so called election. But you focus on the silly stuff all you want your greats enemy is in the middle east. To me this is the cold war with out boarders and and many nation are getting irritated with the whole lot.
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Posted 8/12/10 , edited 8/12/10


Ooh ok so that one muslim out of the thousands of muslims who serves in the US military, some even dead buried next to fellow US military men speaks for the rest of the muslims in the army correct? How often does that happen? If this happened often shouldn't the military examine every muslim? I am pretty sure if this was a huge problem in the military the government would respond to such action. Do you even know how hard it is for a muslim to serve while his country degenerates his religion? How he has to go overseas and kill fellow muslims then come back to ignorant ungrateful Americans such as yourself? You had a few bad experiences, none even as serious as I thought it would nor life threatening. Hell I had a roommate who was a black Christian who would cheat on his girl every time, take money from her, use her but does that speak volumes for all African American men? Do I stoop down to your stupidity? No look at how Obama treats his wife. I meet ass hats on a daily thats a part of being human. You mean to tell me in your whole life you never met an asshole until you met a muslim are you serious? As far as you being an engineer they didnt like the fact you work can you please explain that? I came from Fujitsu working with lots of engineers. The test Engineer manager was a muslim with a master in electrical engineering and had his MBA. The two soft engineer women never had a problem with him at all. I talked with him a lot he has a family and kids and not once did he complain about women working. Hell I am muslim I never complained about women working. My mother is muslim my dad never complained about her working. What I am trying to get it and please dont use stereotypes where are you getting the facts that all muslim men hate women based on your experiences. You are getting your info from your news station showing how women are being treated overseas correct and thus this in essence created your bias opinion of all muslim men am I right? There are many married muslim women working, what part of the USA do you live in damn it must be pretty damn rural. You need to get out more.

As long as muslim law isnt the law of the land? What the hell are you talking about? Muslims has been in the USA from the beginning of time obeying the US law of the land. If we break it we go to jail like anyone else nobody is exempt. Are you saying somehow we are changing American laws? I am trying to understand you here because you have a lot of bias claims about muslims. Has a muslim threatened your life that you know of to convert or die? Your making some stupid statements now your saying that if the a muslim stops a non peaceful muslim then he can live with others correct? Okay lets take that analogy. Did you stop Bush when he launched a war against Iraq who did nothing to us, had nothing to do with 9-11, also had no WMD's. Was that pretty peaceful to do? Where was you then? So basically since you didnt stop him you cant live with others in peace correct? Like I have stated muslims have been living in America side by side, paying taxes in peace and just like every other human being they are all not perfect. Of course some are crazy just like many other Americans who commit crimes. When caught they have to face punishment. I am not going to sit here and act like every muslim is perfect because they are not. No "every" race, religion, gender is little sweet angels. I shouldn't even have to tell you this you should already know that.

I dont understand what your talking about in your second sentence especially what you highlighted in red. I never act like a thug on the internet. Just read through all my posts and you will see. Your last sentence is incorrect as well no where does it state in the Quran about making deals and breaking them with non muslims or making deals with anyone themselves. I just love the random things put on Islam such as the 70 virgin myth for committing suicide. Nobody can find a single quote like that in the Quran. Like I stated all these insults on Islam is for one purpose only and that is infinite occupation in the middle east. The more you demonize it the more Americans will support it. If Islam was demonized as bad it is today many Americans would go back to the Vietnam days protesting the war and demanding all of our troops get sent back home. I am starting to agree with Jesse Ventura we might just have to bring back the draft. Because Americans are not feeling the cost of these two wars. Maybe when little Timmothy comes back home in a body bag then people will think twice about these wars but right now nobody is feeling anything and this is why the blind support continues.

Third paragraph I am lost to as well but it seems like your saying in China and Russia Islam is a big threat? How? What is Islam doing to these two countries? All I see is a bunch of muslims practicing their religion over there the same way they are here in the USA. I am pretty sure if a muslim steps out of line and breaks the law punishment awaits them.

When you talk about Iran are you talking about the election? First of all why the hell does the USA care about that election? Do we care about the election in Sweden or anywhere else? How do we automatically jump to the side of it being a fraud where is the proof of that? Are we just reporting it as being a fraud to get more Americans angered with Iran? Right now as far as I can tell Iran never attacked or invaded any country in history. But USA backed Iraq attacked them though how do you explain that? You dislike Iran for them doing absolutely nothing to you. We claim they have nuclear weapons based off nothing. The IEIA who inspects them never found a single weapon. Our own US intelligence never found one. Some reason though these same lieing warhawks that fooled us into the Iraq war somehow, someway found weapons that nobody yet to this day has seen. You mean to tell me you just going to up and believe something without solid proof? I dont know what your talking about great enemy being in the middle east. I have no great enemy. I am not living my life to prepare for some war I am trying to live and take care of myself until the day I die.

Seriously though Tarkelly how much longer do you think our country can hold up if we continue down this path? How high do the unemployment of the USA have to rise before our politicians finally start to take care of Americans within rather the worry about what some other countries president will be? When will we nation build our nation and secure our own borders rather then doing that to another foreign country? Right now I am all about taking care of America because thats where we will and be forever. We are hurting right now we dont have time to police the damn world because all we are doing is pissing people off and looking extremely hypocritical. It is muslims, jews, christians, and non muslims all hurting right now. While we get poorer the rich get richer but here instead you would rather some kind of stupid internal war with muslim Americans. What good would that do Tarkelly? We are in a damn depression right now in case you haven't noticed. We cant keep continuing this psycho regime soon our currency will just fail on us. The more we keep printing it the less value it will hold.
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Posted 8/12/10 , edited 8/12/10
Some time you need to think out side the box To make it simple to you is Russia ans China are helping themselves and with Leader or Idiot of Iran I fairly sure there far more worried as the Islamic plague moves closer to them. I would like and wished for Muslims were a people of peace so far that never been a true statement. Arafat and Jew's amazing just how close to a peace agreement and the motor attacks would start up even after big concession by the Jewish people. I also had many Jewish friend never heard the blame the Muslim's for on mistakes I think that's Islamic thinking for you. Not very rational at best why blame yourself when you can blame others Islam at it finest.------------------------Your about the only person that recognizes were in a depression. most people still think thing are getting better. Yes I lived though the 1970 recession and when I got out of the Army the economy was not that good where i was at but over all was improving., I glad you understand basic economics's.---------------------------------------------------------------------Your going by your experience i am going by mind i have severed many black Americans in the army and proud to do so Like I said the one collar in the military and that uninformed. Another word you never been in the military and you going to tell how it works. I saw allot of those sings That said Bush lied. Tell that to the 80,000 curd's that got nail by a nerve agent. He he used them in his country why would not think he had more even the Clinton presidency thought they had them. Another thing they kept shoot at are fighter the whole time after the agreement was made. What was your case again. To me it ether by luck or ingenues thinking to split the war into two areas. The chance of a win in Afghanistan where never really good to strategy with The Soviets did get there but pounded there. But I am pretty sure it was luck, Bush did not vote allot of bills that one thing i did not like. The congress are the ones responsible for the spending and budget all the president can do is say ya or nay you should understand that.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Some time i would like to post a sing out front that Obama kept his word but so far that has not been the case. I could give jack about the man color it dose not mean anything to me black white Hispanic if the punk are going around with the jean half way down the butts the punk or punks wannabes I will not wast my time on them I stay clear and have my hand on my gun. But I do respect Bush Far more Then Obama Why Bush Did not dog out Clinton for the same Problem Obama got it two year in office and he still blaming Bush, Act like a Commander and Chief and some week kneed cry baby. Personally I consider my self a libertarian have allot disdain for both parties----------------------------------------------- You talk all high and mighty but you sure do allot of name calling and cussing maybe your not as bight as you think your are. I was against the first saving loan that went under in the late seventies. I think the same way now. This congress and president have borrowed over 4 trillion dollars in two years the word global depression mean anything wars starts that way as well.----------------------------------------------I have set up paper mills foundries the two muslim EE did not want my help fine by me one was fried on that job the other got fired because his he just could not keep up with the paces. doing start up if you get being on your feet working 40 hour straight was normal most EE at that time never mad the first year burn out was three i lasted six fight other problems as well. when we made mistake people could die more then likely we would die. Every place a soft starter to a Ac motor in a coal mine just i slip goodbye coal mine and the crew and myself 1800 feet down two miles to the lift. ever been thirty stories up on stack checking sensor. Yes I could have had a tech do it but my rule was never order somebody to do something i have not done myself. I do not believe in god i respect other belief's in front of them but people that get into some of the wall stuff as long as the do not force it on to other or hurt other. That seem to be a big problem for your people death sentence are given for that in many Islamic countries. Is that a sing of insecurity. by the way have notice i never called your names your say i would not stoop to your level these are signs of insecurity of what your pontificating maybe a little less out rage and more fact. I took a GED to get into the army got a high school diploma and some college credits the work through school some time I would not have enough cash for the semester and had to work filling a EE slot then the company owner or his second would come and sing off on my work, I did mange to finish school. You see I am old school pay your own way looking for hand outs because life unfair dose cut it form. when I was in the army Muslims were not a larger part and most Combat arm MOS Were filled with white and hispanic and some blacks they where generally in the maintenance units. One other thing I was glad we did not enter Iraq the first time we had allot for crap for weapons back then. they were still using doge pick up truck and deuce and half from the fifty and sixties. Some time experience trump over the stuff taught in school. writing code is cool but code means nothing if you really do not under stand the mechanics and each machine will develop it own personality. When you have four story tall machine that over a hundred yard pulse all the fuel mixture to run there own turbines from black liquor to natural gas oil then set up to feed excess to the power company. Hell last week I helped to muslim get there car started, I also had to explain to them that jump starting cars is not a good ideal and these people sold used cars. It amaze me just how inept how men have become. by the age of ten i was running a open pit combine with tire from old B-17, swath-er first car i drove was a studebaker with the stick on the coulomb. so far all I herd you say is what you herd not what you done. And you will notice most the dead are hispanic and white from these war. one other thing 4 trillion dollars that about 0.04 percent spent on the war.
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Posted 8/12/10 , edited 8/12/10


Your telling me to think outside the box? What box am I living in? Who am I stereotyping? Okay lets start with your first sentence are you implying that Russia and China is buying oil from Iran? Thus by doing so the plague of Islam is moving closer lol where is the proof of that? So buy buying oil from an Islamic nation somehow slowly converts their leaders into Islam? Well damn we keep purchasing oil from the middle east and not a single influence of Islam is spread through USA. You keep talking about Muslims and Jews hell arent we living in peace in the USA? You talking about Palestine and Israel? This is another reason why that situation needs a swift resolve because it is causing confusion on both religious groups. There are many Jews inside the USA and in Israel that are highly critical of Israeli treatment of Palestinian. Not because they are muslim it is because they are people and innocent civilians are dieing. This is why aid ships are sent to Palestine from around the world and that fortilla incident that happened recently there was an Israeli MP on board delivering it. This conflict has been going on for over 60 years now and there has been no solution what so ever but the same policies over and over. Whats worse the USA (our country) is right in the middle of it. We just drag ourselves into shit and it isnt like we are making things much better. We are extremely one side and expect to give one side everything while leaving the other out. This Jew vs Muslim over there when really it is completely political to me is set to detract you from the real issue at hand. You believe that the muslims over there hate the jews so much (even though they are living in constant occupation, starved, homes being settled by foriegners) that they ignore their circumstances and just blindly commit suicide for no reason? Like they not even human and have no emotion correct. Just like Israeli's are human and respond to these attacks when a rocket is launched or a suicide bomb is committed. Palestinians do the same thing and the cycle just continues. I am pretty sure here in America we would be damn if a foreign country tries to settle us. We would all be up in arms fighting.

At least me and you come to agreement about Obama and the Afgan war. No country has won in Afganistan and by us being there for 8 years with no progress I can tell you our economic situation will force us out. I dont know about you but I see no progress at all. I see generals getting fired, new information coming up here and there and another suicide bomb going off. Really in the last 8 years what progress has been made? To me I believe the longer we stay the more hate and backfire we will generate.

As far as your last paragraph okay so your stating you had to work hard for what you do correct? Well congratulations I am with you that we all have to work hard if we want to achieve something. I am pretty sure those muslims that you helped out with the car was very thankful of you. You cant expect everyone to be as knowledgeable as you are about cars but to stereotype muslim men from a simple car jump lol is a little extreme. Really after that encounter sharia law spurred up in your head? Have they gave you the "convert or die" message yet?

As far as some of those Islamic countries such as Afganistan yes I can agree with you the government over there is extreme just like many governments around the world. Those people have lost their way but let me ask you have you ever been to Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, or Bah Rhain or even Syria. I have been to Bah rhain, Syria, and Lebanon. You wouldnt believe how many people down there listen to our music, watch our movies and dress/talk just like you and me. There are Churches in those countries as well as mosques. Muslims and Christians are not fighting internally. It has been like that for years now. Even when I went to Saudi Arabia there were many workers from America working in the oil field. It is called ARAMCO (I forget what it stand for it is Arab American something oil company). Americans were not coverting or dieing. Once again there were Christian Americans as well as arabs and other from different countries living there. We was partying, drinking doing the same stuff you would do here. If they were to come down here and see the Islamaphobia hysteria that our media lauds about they would probably laugh because it is nothing like what the media claims it to be. Lots of them know that as well, the Americans living in those arab countries who life isnt in danger at all would tell you. Hell in fact the minute I mention I am American they are like, "Wow really, whats like over there etc." Many of them love our culture, the only thing they dont like is our government but they dont hate our population as a whole. The thing is you have to get out and explore for yourself. Find out if what the media is saying about all muslims is true.

When Malcom X was in the nation of Islam preaching the black man was God etc. He was living in a box. He didnt change until he made Hajj (trip to Mecca muslims have to do this at least one time in their life), and prayed side by side to muslims of all races and background. Because of that experience seeing that everyone is the same in the eyes of God and there is no greater human being from the other he broke away from the ignorant thinking. Left the nation of Islam and it negative racist teaching none of which is taught in the Quran. I guarantee you if you actually went to those Islamic countries I mention you would find out you had hate for something that wasn't even near what was portrayed on your television screen.

Bottom line Tarkelly there are muslims in America and we love this country just like you. Some want change in policies so we can see economic improvement just like many Americans. Some just live to support their families, many are here working as doctors, lawyers, engineers etc just like you are. We are enjoying the freedom, our women is enjoying the freedom, we dont not wish for any change nor are we rallying up secret meetings to somehow overthrow America. Like I stated we been here from the start and it would not be wise for either side especially considering the state of which the USA is in to have some internal conflict with muslims in America who has done absolutely nothing to you as far as what I am hearing from you. It doesnt make any sense everyone wants to come to America for an opportunity why do you think muslims are different? America allows us an opportunity in which many countries and not just the middle east denies. We are not perfect and yes we got a few psycho's but what world have you been living in where you dont find any psycho's? It is funny because even in this multicultural country that we have all been living in for years people still want to have some kind of jim crow law implement in the USA.
Posted 8/12/10 , edited 8/12/10

drizza wrote:

Lol I glanced over this thread and really there isnt anything for any muslim to be mad about. This is a free country so if they want to burn Qurans on their spare time let them. But ask yourself is the "physical" book greater then the "teaching" itself? Are you going to lose the teaching of the Quran once some mad man who hates you burns it? No lol you dont mind it, ignore it, these things are meant to get you mad to see how you react. If you react violently like the news media wants it will be reported to show you are a violent people. Hell I look at it this way muslims will make money on the Quran burning day. In this hard economic times if people want to go load up on Qurans at least they buying it and putting it into muslims pocket right? People will be ignorant to something they know and so far the propaganda is immence to some there is no more explaining just let them drown. You muslims must understand there are billions of us around the world the religion is still the fastest growing so you have nothing to worry about. In fact I am glad people are even more curious about reading the Quran because some even convert after they read rather then finding a website to cherry pick out of context quotes. So dont let them get you mad to the point that you have to result to violence because then you fell right into the trap.

But you see I look past this and look at this in a political perspective. I believe Islam has to be hated in order to get American support for a permanent presence in the middle east. America use to be a country who doesn't like to go to war. We use to mind our own business but thats not the America we are now. We are in almost every country around the world and now we are pre emptively starting wars. Even in a broken economy where people are losing their jobs, homes, and lives due to the depression our military spending does not end. Somehow we want to maintain world empire while at the same time trying to fund an expensive health care system and take care of domestic issues. Right now the middle east is a gold mine, and the gold is the amount of oil the the arab countries are getting and that the USA needs. If muslims were really as evil as they say we are then we wouldnt be allied with many muslim nations such as dictatorship Saudi Arabia. We could give a damn about how they treat their people we getting oil from them and thats all that matters. Hell look at the dictator we installed in Iraq? At the time did we give a shit about what Sadam did to the Iraqi people? Hell no why? Because he was a damn puppet, our puppet, but despite that how do you think the people of Iraq felt about the USA supporting such a man like that? How do Palestinians feel when a megaton bomb is dropped on their head made in the USA? How do Pakistanis feel when US military drones kill innocent civilians? Are people even human to get angry anymore because it seems that why when it comes to the middle east. When people are angered when they lose everything and respond with violence somehow we Americans act in shock and awe. The propaganda on Islam is to the point if someone commits a crime or a terrible act overseas is headlines news in America lol? Now why are we reporting other countries crimes in America? But then similar acts in America is just seen as one psycho individual. In fact do other countries report what one crazy white man does in America and try to paint all the white people as being as crazy as that one man?

What if some other country came and installed dictators or meddled in the USA constantly? Evil dicators locking us up, killing us on the street but not giving a damn because that dictator is doing what the foreign country is saying? Would we not be outraged? Would we not try to rise up and change the situation? I have always and always stated here in the USA we are blessed becuase thats never happened to us. So it is hard to relate to other people when they have a foreign country occupying their land, their homes bombed and destroyed. We never been through that but they have. This is why they are so angered. What did the muslims ever do to the USA for them to come change leadership and bomb the hell out of them? These are third world countries and Americans are scared shitless that countries with an extremely weak military will somehow become a world power. Honestly if there was Hindu's in the middle east then Hindu's would be the target of attack. Think about how powefull this propaganda against Islam is. Americans truly believe we are doing the right thing because we are "killing" those evil muslims.

Recently Israeli killed nine people on a gaza aid ship. Now because many of them were muslim it didnt matter to many American people. Now lets flip the script had this been a Jewish Aid ship in which 9 jews were killed by muslims in Iran just tell me how vocal you think the USA and the American people would be? When you have consistent propaganda against something people become accustom to it. Thats what I believe is what is happening to Islam. I believe it is hated only because there is a political agenda in the middle east and in order to get Americans to keep supporting wars, in which our troops are dieing over a pack of lies, no progress is even being made at all, many become permanently disabled. For what? So the military industrial complex to get rich? For the oil contractors? For the banks to keep us owing them as we keep borrowing money to fund these wars? All under the illusion that we are fighting a war in which we started against terror? You would think these war machines has had it but now we are even trying to start a war with Iran. So even if we somehow end Iraq and Afganistan another one brewing right around the corner. And since we hate those damn muslims sure why not? Lets fund these war, lets continue to bankrupt our economy and somehow try to westernize the middle east. I mean really who gives a damn about people within America who are struggling financially? I wonder just how much money the government is spending on these so called "terror equipment"? All these millions of dollars being spent to infiltrate our privacy all in the name of "protecting" us against terror. How many more of our rights must we violate to feel "safe".

But it is suppose to be this way you know why? Because it is said over and over, "If we pull out they will come and get us." With these statement embedded into many of the American minds especially the ones who are scared doesn't have any choice but to support an infinite war, occupation in the middle east while this country is bankrupt. Obama came to office and promised nothing, changed nothing, everything is the exact same as it was with Bush plus and expensive healthcare system. When will my fellow Americans really demand change hell I will never know. Because we always vote the same people in power with the exact same ideas and expect something different. Until we turn into wolves and not sheep this situation will never change. Judging by much of the comments I seen I am correct we have a long way to go.

Right now elections are coming up and I am like "meh". Hell the republicans took over with Bush and we seen what happened. Then the Dems came not much change in that department so lol I dont know what the hell people are expecting. Oh well thats all I have to say on this thread ignorance will continue to rain and as long people drown in it then their situation and the country will never change. Peace and Aslaam Mu Alaikum to all my brothers and sisters.

Ramadan Mubarak!!!!
Yeah, about that, your own ignorance about your own country isn't helping your pessimistic cause either. Also...

drizza wrote:



Ooh ok so that one muslim out of the thousands of muslims who serves in the US military, some even dead buried next to fellow US military men speaks for the rest of the muslims in the army correct? How often does that happen? If this happened often shouldn't the military examine every muslim? I am pretty sure if this was a huge problem in the military the government would respond to such action. Do you even know how hard it is for a muslim to serve while his country degenerates his religion? How he has to go overseas and kill fellow muslims then come back to ignorant ungrateful Americans such as yourself? You had a few bad experiences, none even as serious as I thought it would nor life threatening. Hell I had a roommate who was a black Christian who would cheat on his girl every time, take money from her, use her but does that speak volumes for all African American men? Do I stoop down to your stupidity? No look at how Obama treats his wife. I meet ass hats on a daily thats a part of being human. You mean to tell me in your whole life you never met an asshole until you met a muslim are you serious? As far as you being an engineer they didnt like the fact you work can you please explain that? I came from Fujitsu working with lots of engineers. The test Engineer manager was a muslim with a master in electrical engineering and had his MBA. The two soft engineer women never had a problem with him at all. I talked with him a lot he has a family and kids and not once did he complain about women working. Hell I am muslim I never complained about women working. My mother is muslim my dad never complained about her working. What I am trying to get it and please dont use stereotypes where are you getting the facts that all muslim men hate women based on your experiences. You are getting your info from your news station showing how women are being treated overseas correct and thus this in essence created your bias opinion of all muslim men am I right? There are many married muslim women working, what part of the USA do you live in damn it must be pretty damn rural. You need to get out more.

As long as muslim law isnt the law of the land? What the hell are you talking about? Muslims has been in the USA from the beginning of time obeying the US law of the land. If we break it we go to jail like anyone else nobody is exempt. Are you saying somehow we are changing American laws? I am trying to understand you here because you have a lot of bias claims about muslims. Has a muslim threatened your life that you know of to convert or die? Your making some stupid statements now your saying that if the a muslim stops a non peaceful muslim then he can live with others correct? Okay lets take that analogy. Did you stop Bush when he launched a war against Iraq who did nothing to us, had nothing to do with 9-11, also had no WMD's. Was that pretty peaceful to do? Where was you then? So basically since you didnt stop him you cant live with others in peace correct? Like I have stated muslims have been living in America side by side, paying taxes in peace and just like every other human being they are all not perfect. Of course some are crazy just like many other Americans who commit crimes. When caught they have to face punishment. I am not going to sit here and act like every muslim is perfect because they are not. No "every" race, religion, gender is little sweet angels. I shouldn't even have to tell you this you should already know that.

I dont understand what your talking about in your second sentence especially what you highlighted in red. I never act like a thug on the internet. Just read through all my posts and you will see. Your last sentence is incorrect as well no where does it state in the Quran about making deals and breaking them with non muslims or making deals with anyone themselves. I just love the random things put on Islam such as the 70 virgin myth for committing suicide. Nobody can find a single quote like that in the Quran. Like I stated all these insults on Islam is for one purpose only and that is infinite occupation in the middle east. The more you demonize it the more Americans will support it. If Islam was demonized as bad it is today many Americans would go back to the Vietnam days protesting the war and demanding all of our troops get sent back home. I am starting to agree with Jesse Ventura we might just have to bring back the draft. Because Americans are not feeling the cost of these two wars. Maybe when little Timmothy comes back home in a body bag then people will think twice about these wars but right now nobody is feeling anything and this is why the blind support continues.

Third paragraph I am lost to as well but it seems like your saying in China and Russia Islam is a big threat? How? What is Islam doing to these two countries? All I see is a bunch of muslims practicing their religion over there the same way they are here in the USA. I am pretty sure if a muslim steps out of line and breaks the law punishment awaits them.

When you talk about Iran are you talking about the election? First of all why the hell does the USA care about that election? Do we care about the election in Sweden or anywhere else? How do we automatically jump to the side of it being a fraud where is the proof of that? Are we just reporting it as being a fraud to get more Americans angered with Iran? Right now as far as I can tell Iran never attacked or invaded any country in history. But USA backed Iraq attacked them though how do you explain that? You dislike Iran for them doing absolutely nothing to you. We claim they have nuclear weapons based off nothing. The IEIA who inspects them never found a single weapon. Our own US intelligence never found one. Some reason though these same lieing warhawks that fooled us into the Iraq war somehow, someway found weapons that nobody yet to this day has seen. You mean to tell me you just going to up and believe something without solid proof? I dont know what your talking about great enemy being in the middle east. I have no great enemy. I am not living my life to prepare for some war I am trying to live and take care of myself until the day I die.

Seriously though Tarkelly how much longer do you think our country can hold up if we continue down this path? How high do the unemployment of the USA have to rise before our politicians finally start to take care of Americans within rather the worry about what some other countries president will be? When will we nation build our nation and secure our own borders rather then doing that to another foreign country? Right now I am all about taking care of America because thats where we will and be forever. We are hurting right now we dont have time to police the damn world because all we are doing is pissing people off and looking extremely hypocritical. It is muslims, jews, christians, and non muslims all hurting right now. While we get poorer the rich get richer but here instead you would rather some kind of stupid internal war with muslim Americans. What good would that do Tarkelly? We are in a damn depression right now in case you haven't noticed. We cant keep continuing this psycho regime soon our currency will just fail on us. The more we keep printing it the less value it will hold.
Your denial on the "72 virgins"(not 70) and the "justification for lying" in Quran isn't helping your religious cause either.
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Posted 8/12/10 , edited 8/13/10


You proved nothing with that link about the war. All you showing is a reduction of troops but not a full withdrawal also we will still remain a permenant presence. Your two links also prove nothing as well. Once again show everyone here on CR where it states muslims should commit suicide for 72 virgins (I heard people say 7, 10, etc the number is always random). Also quotes where we have to lie to non muslims. Anyone can make up a Hadith but we are talking about the Quran here so try again bub. I know those anti Islamic sites which is drowning you in a deeper state of ignorance can do better then that cant they, dig a lil deeper.

This is coming from the Quran about suicide

But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful!

If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God.

Qur’an 4:29 – 4:30

Now your turn show us where everyone here and CR and dont dodge it please where exactly in the Quran where 72 wives is rewarded for suicide bombing or any kind of suicide. Every muslim knows this is false and this is used as propaganda once again to smear. But knowing you, you wont find anything but some extremely ignorant sarcastic response like you do with everyone else who attempts to have a sane conversation with you.

Anyone else wants to know more about the myth about 72 virgins go here. http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/debunking-the-suicide-for-72-virgins-myth/
Posted 8/13/10 , edited 8/13/10
Here we go again with the 72 virgins lie, just like the lie how Iran wants to "wipe Israel off the map". Wow, people are just so naive to believe every story thrown at them provided by the American-Israeli propaganda machine.
Posted 8/13/10 , edited 8/13/10

drizza wrote:



You proved nothing with that link about the war. All you showing is a reduction of troops but not a full withdrawal also we will still remain a permenant presence. Your two links also prove nothing as well. Once again show everyone here on CR where it states muslims should commit suicide for 72 virgins (I heard people say 7, 10, etc the number is always random). Also quotes where we have to lie to non muslims. Anyone can make up a Hadith but we are talking about the Quran here so try again bub. I know those anti Islamic sites which is drowning you in a deeper state of ignorance can do better then that cant they, dig a lil deeper.

This is coming from the Quran about suicide

But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful!

If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God.

Qur’an 4:29 – 4:30

Now your turn show us where everyone here and CR and dont dodge it please where exactly in the Quran where 72 wives is rewarded for suicide bombing or any kind of suicide. Every muslim knows this is false and this is used as propaganda once again to smear. But knowing you, you wont find anything but some extremely ignorant sarcastic response like you do with everyone else who attempts to have a sane conversation with you.

Anyone else wants to know more about the myth about 72 virgins go here. http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/debunking-the-suicide-for-72-virgins-myth/
Are Islamic fundamentalist group known as the Taliban not teaching the Qur'an as it should be? While you're applying the "no true Scotsman" logic fallacy as a Muslim yourself. And why are you condemning the use of baseless propaganda? When your statement just smeared my reputation without factual evidences. Why did yo lied about the origin of my sources? When both MEMRI and Islamic Review don't have Anti-Islamic agenda. Why should I cite the exact quote from the Qur'an about its justification for lying to non-Muslim? When I've already presented the totality of my sources via hyperlinks. Why do you keep phrasing the word "suicide"? When that's not the case of Islamic martyrdom, aka dying for the Islamic God.
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Posted 8/13/10 , edited 8/14/10

DomFortress wrote:


drizza wrote:



You proved nothing with that link about the war. All you showing is a reduction of troops but not a full withdrawal also we will still remain a permenant presence. Your two links also prove nothing as well. Once again show everyone here on CR where it states muslims should commit suicide for 72 virgins (I heard people say 7, 10, etc the number is always random). Also quotes where we have to lie to non muslims. Anyone can make up a Hadith but we are talking about the Quran here so try again bub. I know those anti Islamic sites which is drowning you in a deeper state of ignorance can do better then that cant they, dig a lil deeper.

This is coming from the Quran about suicide

But let there be amongst you Traffic and trade by mutual good-will: Nor kill (or destroy) yourselves: for verily God hath been to you Most Merciful!

If any do that in rancour and injustice,- soon shall We cast them into the Fire: And easy it is for God.

Qur’an 4:29 – 4:30

Now your turn show us where everyone here and CR and dont dodge it please where exactly in the Quran where 72 wives is rewarded for suicide bombing or any kind of suicide. Every muslim knows this is false and this is used as propaganda once again to smear. But knowing you, you wont find anything but some extremely ignorant sarcastic response like you do with everyone else who attempts to have a sane conversation with you.

Anyone else wants to know more about the myth about 72 virgins go here. http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2007/03/04/debunking-the-suicide-for-72-virgins-myth/
Are Islamic fundamentalist group known as the Taliban not teaching the Qur'an as it should be? While you're applying the "no true Scotsman" logic fallacy as a Muslim yourself. And why are you condemning the use of baseless propaganda? When your statement just smeared my reputation without factual evidences. Why did yo lied about the origin of my sources? When both MEMRI and Islamic Review don't have Anti-Islamic agenda. Why should I cite the exact quote from the Qur'an about its justification for lying to non-Muslim? When I've already presented the totality of my sources via hyperlinks. Why do you keep phrasing the word "suicide"? When that's not the case of Islamic martyrdom, aka dying for the Islamic God.




Lol because you said it is TAUGHT TO MUSLIMS IN ISLAM. Islam is taught through the Quran. So therefore you need to provide proof WHERE in the Quran where it teaches muslims to LIE and commit SUICIDE thanks. I just showed you a quote about what Quran speaks about suicide while all your doing is showing events about terror organizations. They do not speak for the majority of muslims. They dont speak for me they speak for their own radical agenda. Anyone can go to an anti-Islam website such as yours or an anti-jew or whatever and do the exact same. But if your going to make a statement about ALL muslims at least provide proof. Once again you fail to show anything and I challenge anyone here on CR as well to show proof in the Quran where Islam is taught where muslims are suppose to lie, commit suicide, and is rewarded to that. Thanks I have been a muslim all my life and none of this is hailed in the Quran this is how I know you are lieing and can never provide any proof.
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Posted 8/13/10 , edited 8/14/10

jandarujora wrote:

Here we go again with the 72 virgins lie, just like the lie how Iran wants to "wipe Israel off the map". Wow, people are just so naive to believe every story thrown at them provided by the American-Israeli propaganda machine.


Dude like I said they are programmed to think this way to support the injustices we are doing in the middle east. As long as the population are sheep they will never rise to the government and demand change. People like Dom are here to ensure that people stay as closed minded and as ignorant as possible. This damn 72 virgin myth came right after 9-11 I have never heard of it in my life. I have also never heard of honor killings nor the way Jihad is being protrayed. This shit is all made up with nobody even able to show proof just like Dom is doing right now.
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Posted 8/14/10 , edited 8/14/10
I'm just going to say this:

1. People who aren't Muslim or are non-believers will not understand the Qur'an unless they have an open mind about it. There are places in the Qur'an where many people (mostly those who refuse to understand the religion and try to condemn the holy verses for "false" statements and/or violence) misinterpret the meanings. If you're not a philosopher - and i do say that lightly since you don't need to be a philosopher to gain deep understandings for things - then your not going to be able to put together what most Muslims have learnt throughout our lives. And if you can learn things without letting false media stereotypes and worldly circumstances get in your way, then Masha-Allah, i'm happy for ya. How do you think so many people are reverting (converting) to Islam? But if you can't understand the significance of Islam, even if you think you've "researched" the Qur'an and you can't go any "deeper" than you already have, then your not putting much effort into understanding it with an open mind - as if you want to accept it as your religion. It's the same thing with every religion - Hypothetically, If i go and research about the Bible, gospel, scriptures or whatever, i will most probably look at the "bad" things first and judge the whole religion by it. Why? Because i'm not open to accepting and understanding another religion (which is totally not true, if i hear something about another religion and be like "oh ok so thats why it happens, I'm a pretty accepting person. But Islam is the only religion for me).

2. Hadiths are NOT the words of Allah (God). YOU CANNOT REPLACE IT'S WORDS FOR THE QUR'ANS. Hadiths are like narratives which usually depict "true" stories. Notice the quotation marks - yea...all hadith's are written, compiled and interpreted by people who lived years after the Prophet did - so what exactly is the point of reading something not from God directly and allowing it to falsify the word of God? Especially when stories passed over from generation to generation and can resemble a game of chinese whispers over hundreds of years. Another thing about hadiths is that, no matter how true a story sounds, every single different hadith out there are written by different people - different scholars, Imaam's, etc. Believe not what may have been subject to change in the past, present or future. But believe the word of God which is timeless and forever true, as He has said that no man, jinn or angel can change the Qur'an (go google this since i can't be bothered finding the verse that states this).

3. Committing suicide is FORBIDDEN in Islam. Doing this is a one-way ticket to hell. No, Jihad does not come under the section of committing suicide. Comitting suicide is not Matyrdom. They have differences which are often confused. What the people in Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, etc., are doing is WRONG. Suicide bombing = ticket to hell. Jihad = Martyr = Heaven. Suicide bombing does not = Jihad; therefore no heaven. Is that clear? A lot of people nowadays are confusing political garb with religion. And most of these times Islam gets used as a sort of scapegoat for politicians and people who want power and wealth. This is why Islam is almost always branded a violent religion in the media, because the media focuses on the "news" which mostly happens to be bad news. Journalisms a bitch in that way. It's not supposed to work that way. The people corrupt the people, Allah does not - His words DO NOT. Jihad is not something to be taken as lightly as what's happening in the world today. It should only come up in a last resort situation, which i'm pretty sure this middle-eastern "religious" war thing isn't a last resort situation since words can be exchanged without violent interferences. In short, a lot of Muslims wouldn't even think of these extremists or terrorists as Muslims because of the false reputation they're are Islam and disregarding the peace and loving religion it is supposed to be. We are NOT allowed to wage war first - EVER. We are NOT supposed to solve things with violence unless there is no other way - and in such situations the other party must become violent first. This rule applies for many things as well as this - It is our duty as a Muslim to explain, and make others understand, and to keep peace. We should do so three times before allowing violence to lead between two groups/people. Go to #4

4. As for the Islamic laws so many people like to bring up... Why is it that laws made hundreds of years ago when violence was used to deal with violence is being brought up over and over again? Like seriously, how many people still cut off hands for people who steal? Some middle-eastern countries do, and that is mostly because of ignorance and the fact that doing these things will inflict fear into people minds (which usually means they like to have power over the people). Things like this just comes down to common sense regarding the era we live in. Every justice system has their good and bad bits, and quite genuinely, i like the Islamic Shari'ah. A lot of the laws are canonical in the sense that it still works for today's society as well as it did for the past society. If i were to compare the Islamic laws to the laws of the American Justice system; one example is the death penalty. If someone murders someone then they should be in jail for life + the death penalty? I think that's harsh in this modern era. So what if someone is a psychotic killer, do they really deserve to die? Can't they just stay in jail and get help, and if they can't be helped, can't the just stay in jail until they die? Justice can't always be served, and every place or religion have their own laws. Some are harsh and others aren't. You just gotta accept that. As for the countires that are composed solely on the Islamic shari'ah in this time and era...in fact any place that does this...obviously there's something wrong with that. And we see it as wrong or inhumane because we've been "westernised" and have a different POV of things. Just like if you go and live with tribes and people that are still pretty much going about their lives the same ways their ancestors did and using the same laws as them and stuff, we'll find it wrong, but to them its normal.

In a way, we are shaped by the society we live in, the time, the place, the personalities closest to us. So what reason do we have to object others' ways of life and not understand what they are just because they aren't the same as us or don't have the same views as us?

Think about it.

Posted 8/14/10 , edited 8/14/10

T-Rish wrote:

I'm just going to say this:

1. People who aren't Muslim or are non-believers will not understand the Qur'an unless they have an open mind about it. There are places in the Qur'an where many people (mostly those who refuse to understand the religion and try to condemn the holy verses for "false" statements and/or violence) misinterpret the meanings. If you're not a philosopher - and i do say that lightly since you don't need to be a philosopher to gain deep understandings for things - then your not going to be able to put together what most Muslims have learnt throughout our lives. And if you can learn things without letting false media stereotypes and worldly circumstances get in your way, then Masha-Allah, i'm happy for ya. How do you think so many people are reverting (converting) to Islam? But if you can't understand the significance of Islam, even if you think you've "researched" the Qur'an and you can't go any "deeper" than you already have, then your not putting much effort into understanding it with an open mind - as if you want to accept it as your religion. It's the same thing with every religion - Hypothetically, If i go and research about the Bible, gospel, scriptures or whatever, i will most probably look at the "bad" things first and judge the whole religion by it. Why? Because i'm not open to accepting and understanding another religion (which is totally not true, if i hear something about another religion and be like "oh ok so thats why it happens, I'm a pretty accepting person. But Islam is the only religion for me).

2. Hadiths are NOT the words of Allah (God). YOU CANNOT REPLACE IT'S WORDS FOR THE QUR'ANS. Hadiths are like narratives which usually depict "true" stories. Notice the quotation marks - yea...all hadith's are written, compiled and interpreted by people who lived years after the Prophet did - so what exactly is the point of reading something not from God directly and allowing it to falsify the word of God? Especially when stories passed over from generation to generation and can resemble a game of chinese whispers over hundreds of years. Another thing about hadiths is that, no matter how true a story sounds, every single different hadith out there are written by different people - different scholars, Imaam's, etc. Believe not what may have been subject to change in the past, present or future. But believe the word of God which is timeless and forever true, as He has said that no man, jinn or angel can change the Qur'an (go google this since i can't be bothered finding the verse that states this).

3. Committing suicide is FORBIDDEN in Islam. Doing this is a one-way ticket to hell. No, Jihad does not come under the section of committing suicide. Comitting suicide is not Matyrdom. They have differences which are often confused. What the people in Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, etc., are doing is WRONG. Suicide bombing = ticket to hell. Jihad = Martyr = Heaven. Suicide bombing does not = Jihad; therefore no heaven. Is that clear? A lot of people nowadays are confusing political garb with religion. And most of these times Islam gets used as a sort of scapegoat for politicians and people who want power and wealth. This is why Islam is almost always branded a violent religion in the media, because the media focuses on the "news" which mostly happens to be bad news. Journalisms a bitch in that way. It's not supposed to work that way. The people corrupt the people, Allah does not - His words DO NOT. Jihad is not something to be taken as lightly as what's happening in the world today. It should only come up in a last resort situation, which i'm pretty sure this middle-eastern "religious" war thing isn't a last resort situation since words can be exchanged without violent interferences. In short, a lot of Muslims wouldn't even think of these extremists or terrorists as Muslims because of the false reputation they're are Islam and disregarding the peace and loving religion it is supposed to be. We are NOT allowed to wage war first - EVER. We are NOT supposed to solve things with violence unless there is no other way - and in such situations the other party must become violent first. This rule applies for many things as well as this - It is our duty as a Muslim to explain, and make others understand, and to keep peace. We should do so three times before allowing violence to lead between two groups/people. Go to #4

4. As for the Islamic laws so many people like to bring up... Why is it that laws made hundreds of years ago when violence was used to deal with violence is being brought up over and over again? Like seriously, how many people still cut off hands for people who steal? Some middle-eastern countries do, and that is mostly because of ignorance and the fact that doing these things will inflict fear into people minds (which usually means they like to have power over the people). Things like this just comes down to common sense regarding the era we live in. Every justice system has their good and bad bits, and quite genuinely, i like the Islamic Shari'ah. A lot of the laws are canonical in the sense that it still works for today's society as well as it did for the past society. If i were to compare the Islamic laws to the laws of the American Justice system; one example is the death penalty. If someone murders someone then they should be in jail for life + the death penalty? I think that's harsh in this modern era. So what if someone is a psychotic killer, do they really deserve to die? Can't they just stay in jail and get help, and if they can't be helped, can't the just stay in jail until they die? Justice can't always be served, and every place or religion have their own laws. Some are harsh and others aren't. You just gotta accept that. As for the countires that are composed solely on the Islamic shari'ah in this time and era...in fact any place that does this...obviously there's something wrong with that. And we see it as wrong or inhumane because we've been "westernised" and have a different POV of things. Just like if you go and live with tribes and people that are still pretty much going about their lives the same ways their ancestors did and using the same laws as them and stuff, we'll find it wrong, but to them its normal.

In a way, we are shaped by the society we live in, the time, the place, the personalities closest to us. So what reason do we have to object others' ways of life and not understand what they are just because they aren't the same as us or don't have the same views as us?

Think about it.



Naturally, I wouldn't think of a suicide bombing as being justifiable in any way. There can be no paradise for anyone so foolish as to throw their life away for a fanatical cause. A faith of loving kindness isn't about bloodshed. Sadly, there aren't going to be enough people who will see this truth. Wars will spring up out of ignorance just as they have for thousands of years.
Posted 8/14/10 , edited 8/14/10

T-Rish wrote:

I'm just going to say this:

1. People who aren't Muslim or are non-believers will not understand the Qur'an unless they have an open mind about it. There are places in the Qur'an where many people (mostly those who refuse to understand the religion and try to condemn the holy verses for "false" statements and/or violence) misinterpret the meanings. If you're not a philosopher - and i do say that lightly since you don't need to be a philosopher to gain deep understandings for things - then your not going to be able to put together what most Muslims have learnt throughout our lives. And if you can learn things without letting false media stereotypes and worldly circumstances get in your way, then Masha-Allah, i'm happy for ya. How do you think so many people are reverting (converting) to Islam? But if you can't understand the significance of Islam, even if you think you've "researched" the Qur'an and you can't go any "deeper" than you already have, then your not putting much effort into understanding it with an open mind - as if you want to accept it as your religion. It's the same thing with every religion - Hypothetically, If i go and research about the Bible, gospel, scriptures or whatever, i will most probably look at the "bad" things first and judge the whole religion by it. Why? Because i'm not open to accepting and understanding another religion (which is totally not true, if i hear something about another religion and be like "oh ok so thats why it happens, I'm a pretty accepting person. But Islam is the only religion for me).

2. Hadiths are NOT the words of Allah (God). YOU CANNOT REPLACE IT'S WORDS FOR THE QUR'ANS. Hadiths are like narratives which usually depict "true" stories. Notice the quotation marks - yea...all hadith's are written, compiled and interpreted by people who lived years after the Prophet did - so what exactly is the point of reading something not from God directly and allowing it to falsify the word of God? Especially when stories passed over from generation to generation and can resemble a game of chinese whispers over hundreds of years. Another thing about hadiths is that, no matter how true a story sounds, every single different hadith out there are written by different people - different scholars, Imaam's, etc. Believe not what may have been subject to change in the past, present or future. But believe the word of God which is timeless and forever true, as He has said that no man, jinn or angel can change the Qur'an (go google this since i can't be bothered finding the verse that states this).

3. Committing suicide is FORBIDDEN in Islam. Doing this is a one-way ticket to hell. No, Jihad does not come under the section of committing suicide. Comitting suicide is not Matyrdom. They have differences which are often confused. What the people in Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, etc., are doing is WRONG. Suicide bombing = ticket to hell. Jihad = Martyr = Heaven. Suicide bombing does not = Jihad; therefore no heaven. Is that clear? A lot of people nowadays are confusing political garb with religion. And most of these times Islam gets used as a sort of scapegoat for politicians and people who want power and wealth. This is why Islam is almost always branded a violent religion in the media, because the media focuses on the "news" which mostly happens to be bad news. Journalisms a bitch in that way. It's not supposed to work that way. The people corrupt the people, Allah does not - His words DO NOT. Jihad is not something to be taken as lightly as what's happening in the world today. It should only come up in a last resort situation, which i'm pretty sure this middle-eastern "religious" war thing isn't a last resort situation since words can be exchanged without violent interferences. In short, a lot of Muslims wouldn't even think of these extremists or terrorists as Muslims because of the false reputation they're are Islam and disregarding the peace and loving religion it is supposed to be. We are NOT allowed to wage war first - EVER. We are NOT supposed to solve things with violence unless there is no other way - and in such situations the other party must become violent first. This rule applies for many things as well as this - It is our duty as a Muslim to explain, and make others understand, and to keep peace. We should do so three times before allowing violence to lead between two groups/people. Go to #4

4. As for the Islamic laws so many people like to bring up... Why is it that laws made hundreds of years ago when violence was used to deal with violence is being brought up over and over again? Like seriously, how many people still cut off hands for people who steal? Some middle-eastern countries do, and that is mostly because of ignorance and the fact that doing these things will inflict fear into people minds (which usually means they like to have power over the people). Things like this just comes down to common sense regarding the era we live in. Every justice system has their good and bad bits, and quite genuinely, i like the Islamic Shari'ah. A lot of the laws are canonical in the sense that it still works for today's society as well as it did for the past society. If i were to compare the Islamic laws to the laws of the American Justice system; one example is the death penalty. If someone murders someone then they should be in jail for life + the death penalty? I think that's harsh in this modern era. So what if someone is a psychotic killer, do they really deserve to die? Can't they just stay in jail and get help, and if they can't be helped, can't the just stay in jail until they die? Justice can't always be served, and every place or religion have their own laws. Some are harsh and others aren't. You just gotta accept that. As for the countires that are composed solely on the Islamic shari'ah in this time and era...in fact any place that does this...obviously there's something wrong with that. And we see it as wrong or inhumane because we've been "westernised" and have a different POV of things. Just like if you go and live with tribes and people that are still pretty much going about their lives the same ways their ancestors did and using the same laws as them and stuff, we'll find it wrong, but to them its normal.

In a way, we are shaped by the society we live in, the time, the place, the personalities closest to us. So what reason do we have to object others' ways of life and not understand what they are just because they aren't the same as us or don't have the same views as us?

Think about it.
Here's where you don't get the logic of non-contradiction, as in when you unwisely claiming that all opinions are equal, you uncritically made all opinions are equally stupid when they don't work. But is that a factual claim based on reality?

For example, why should there even be a capital punishment/death penalty? When the reality is that it just doesn't work to solve crime in the US; capital of punishment.

When the laws of a society doesn't change, the society itself doesn't change either. Thereby when you have a patriarchy Muslim society that promote gender inequality, look what happens with the state of Muslim womanhood as according to their Islamic faith as the fundamental philosophy for their legislation.

Also, I find your downplaying the importance of philosophy very irrational. Because you're going against your very own Islamic teaching of valuing knowledge.

Finally can you see just how incredible the religious tradition of the "after-life" or "reincarnation" as a cultural norms during primary socialization, can make individuals pretty much disregard their current life as is? Furthermore, when the religious system of justification lies beyond the individuals' comprehension as both supernatural and metaphysical in existence, we're pretty much looking at a religious moral code of conduct that's incapable of yielding any natural and physical result within an individuals' given lifetime. How's that for a superstitious scapegoat? Pretty ethnocentric, wouldn't you agreed?
T-Rish 
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Posted 8/15/10 , edited 8/15/10

DomFortress wrote:



Here's where you don't get the logic of non-contradiction, as in when you unwisely claiming that all opinions are equal, you uncritically made all opinions are equally stupid when they don't work. But is that a factual claim based on reality?

For example, why should there even be a capital punishment/death penalty? When the reality is that it just doesn't work to solve crime in the US; capital of punishment.

When the laws of a society doesn't change, the society itself doesn't change either. Thereby when you have a patriarchy Muslim society that promote gender inequality, look what happens with the state of Muslim womanhood as according to their Islamic faith as the fundamental philosophy for their legislation.

Also, I find your downplaying the importance of philosophy very irrational. Because you're going against your very own Islamic teaching of valuing knowledge.

Finally can you see just how incredible the religious tradition of the "after-life" or "reincarnation" as a cultural norms during primary socialization, can make individuals pretty much disregard their current life as is? Furthermore, when the religious system of justification lies beyond the individuals' comprehension as both supernatural and metaphysical in existence, we're pretty much looking at a religious moral code of conduct that's incapable of yielding any natural and physical result within an individuals' given lifetime. How's that for a superstitious scapegoat? Pretty ethnocentric, wouldn't you agreed?


That first statement is as retarded as retarded can get - In my opinion anyway. Everyone has their own opinions, but you don't see me blowing up in each persons face contradicting their thoughts with mine. That's the reason i didn't quote anyone in this thread, because to me everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. You can answer that question yourself because all it takes is some common sense. And about capital punishment, i just said that i don't agree with things as such. You seem to me as someone who doesn't like to look at the whole picture, but instead try to find bits and pieces which you can manipulate and think your opposer has said the wrong thing.

You have it wrong: When the society doesn't change, neither do their laws. It's not the other way around. Islam doesn't encourage gender inequality, it promotes the equality of men and women both. I'm going to ask you something, Have you actually read the whole Qur'an instead of finding snippets or verses you pick out from internet sources or the articles you like to hyperlink? And don't even try to lie to me by saying that you have, because someone who has read it knows that Allah created differences between men and women. What one may not be good at, the other is good at. We were made to compliment each other - Two halves of a whole. Three of those hyperlinks were based on what's happening in Iran (and i have already stated Iran as a country that has a lot of problems mainly because they confuse religion and politics in the path to attain power and wealth). Another thing about Iran is that although it is mostly populated with muslims, 89% of the muslims are of the Shia class whereas only 9% is Sunni (source: https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ir.html). I'm going to assume your uneducated about the differences between these two "classes" and explain that the Shia class often contradict the teachings of Islam and the guidance of the Prophet Muhammed (S.A.W.) (no offence intended to any Shia's out there). We have been taught to follow Allah's words and use the life of the Prophet as a guidance to how we should live our life (and one would know when to follow this rule literally and when things should be taken practically).

I was not downplaying the importance of philosophy. I said that "...you don't need to be a philosopher to gain deep understandings for things...". There is a significant difference. this just proves to me that you don't read and interpret things correctly.

1. There is no reincarnation in Islam.
2. You live in a time and era where things have changed radically since the revelation of the Qur'an. Sure we should follow the Islamic Shari'ah, but im pretty sure that many people, including myself and many other learned Muslims, wouldn't agree on the punishment one person can give to another. Being a judge for such punishments, you know that your accountable to answer to Allah about why a punishment was given or why a law was carried out, and your justification must be commendable since you would have to decide something which could very much change an individuals life. We should not try and take into our hands another person fate. But if it isn't avoidable, then we should do so with extreme caution. The morality in Islam of such things doesn't really contradict the morals we have gained from today's society. As i have said before, times have changed! Those who cannot perceive the peace the Islamic Shari'ah is supposed to bring and rules unjustly will be dealt with in the after-life by the only One who can. It is He who the the Just, the All-knower, the All-seer, the Merciful.

Another thing, it is said that there will only be a few TRUE Muslims left in the world when the Day of Judgement nears. All I can say is that have the Islamic population may not be true Muslims at the moment. Hell, i don't even know if I'm a true Muslim. What i do know is that I am trying to be the best Muslim i can be and i know that i will be rewarded for it in the after-life. And what do you mean by ethnocentric? That is indubitably the stupidest comment i have heard. In my eyes, Yes i do find Islam the superior religion. You go to a Christian and they'd be "ethnocentric" too. Go to a scientist, they'll probably beleive science is the greatest and above all other things. However, i don't beleive i'm superior to the person next to me, or someone on the streets, etc. In a way, your ethnocentric because I can't get it past you that Islam is good, you beleive whatever you beleive in and think it's superior than Islam. And you know what, that's fine with me because according to Islam on the day of Judgement we are all going to have to answer to God, and we are all accountable for our actions.

I don't expect you to understand what I'm talking about because to me it seems that you only want to see the bad in Islam, but you should at least try and respect others religions and their beliefs. We have our beliefs and i can't answer your questions coherently because i don't feel you know about Islam enough and are not open to understanding our views and teachings. In a way that proves of your ignorance towards Islam.

Oh one more thing, I'm not going to reply to any more quotes/replies because It's ridiculous to have religious threads on an Anime/Drama site, especially when there is so much ignoramus, stereotypical, media- and internet-induced rubbish going around.
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