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Existence of Hell
Posted 4/10/11 , edited 4/11/11

Cordula wrote:

Please allow me to explain that I do not participate in “Organized Religion.” When I pray it is from my heart, I don’t recite chants in which I can’t place meaning in my words. God himself said the only religion He believes in is the caring of orphans and widows. If you want, I can put up the exact reference. A church is a place where believers gather together. It is not a building with four walls. I feel closest to God when among His creation. A gentle breeze, the colors of spring that we are now experiencing, and soft rainfall make me feel close to God. Why would God give us a free will and a heaven in which to someday dwell if He is who you say?

If there was not a sin barrier between humans and God, imagine what “heaven” would be like. I can visualize only the most profound pain and suffering that occurs when people do evil on earth. I have read in so many places, people saying, “There is no God,” May I not also say “There is a God” and discuss it calmly and honestly? This is why I invited people to PM me. I want to hear what people have to say, and explore their evidence, while offering my own.

Thank you for quoting me. I mean this sincerely and without arrogance. I enjoy searching for truth and the points you bring up are things I want to explore further because even though I feel that God has given me a life of peace and happiness, I see that this is not how many people feel about God. That is why I want to explore it - to see our differences and discover why these differences occur. I have put up some evidence that leads me to make a calculated leap of faith, and believe what I do. It includes observations on Macroevolution and the Law of Probability among other things. I would like to see any evidence you have that has caused you to place your faith in what you believe. Yet again I say this with sincerity. I try to be open minded, please extend this courtesy to me as well:
When you numb away your ability to feel pain, you also disable your ability to feel pleasure, and subsequently your capacity for real empathy. And when women and children can empower themselves far greater than men can, while men need the protection of patriarchy, in order to proclaim their sense of entitlement and dominance in the bible. I'm by no means looking forward to that sorta biblical afterlife.

And while there's a probability that God isn't the way how Christianity frames it, but the Christian religious dogma known as monotheism doesn't allow anything else but the Christian concept of God. Tell me, can your belief allow the practice of polytheism? That's the first step for equality and interdependency, not dominance through codependency.

Moreover, if you honestly wanna hear what people would say out in the open public, then don't exclude others through privatizing the conversation between yourself and other individuals.

Cordula wrote:

I have read the Golden Bough by Frazer and the White Goddess, a historical grammer of poetic myth by Robert Graves and compared them to the Bible. I don't see it as conclusive evidence that the Bible has copied other myths, I think the opposite is true. I am aware of Chirstian's taking over pagan holidays and such in attempts to stop paganism, but the way I view Christianity is very simplistic and non materialistic.

I have no desire to shove my religion down your throat. This is my reference of God's view on "pure religion" - Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being poluted by the world. (James 1:27) I wanted to simply show how people view hell from a Christian point of view. You can take it or leave it. I obviously don't know everything, and I'm not pretending to. This information doesn't explain everything obviously, but it is enough for me.
This is why I believe in God:

This is why I believe the Bible:

*I did not say they saw him rise from the dead. I said they saw him after he rose from the dead.
What would happen if contraception and abortion were legal and provided by the governments for all women? Simple, there will be no unwanted pregnancy, resulting total reduction on orphans and single motherhood. With the added benefit of your religion loosing all purposes.

You wanna play pseudosciences and bad philosophical debates? Let's dance:

1)Cause and Effect: by proclaiming that God just exists throughout all eternity, you broke that logic without solving the paradox that you created with the said logic; when you claimed that God is outside of His own law of "cause and effect", there lies the possibility that there's no such thing as "cause and effect".

2)Moral Law: by stating a claim at religions "moral law," you opened for criticisms on the biblical justifications of prejudice, rape, abuse, torture, and genocide.

3)Macroevolution: you wanna debunk evolution as a whole without showing real genetic evidence that it never happened? The fact that humans as a specie share great genetic similarity with fruit flies, and even greater similarity with chimps, means that you can' explain how the similarities came to be without the theory of evolution as a whole.

4)Living matter came from non-living matter: Case in point.

5)Missing link: Irrelevant compared to human migration pattern before prehistory, which dated way before the bible itself.

6)The Law of Biogenesis: not even a real science compared to genetic evidence.

7)Irreducible Complexity: No real evidence on how complexity isn't the result of genetic variation through mutation and natural selection.

8)Evolution Defying Creatures: Define the creator of an "intelligent creator", without making the logic fallacy in 1).

So not only your logic and reasoning were faulty, your bible is also full of holes, contradictions, and inconsistency:

1)You claimed that God's ultimately responsible for human meanings and purposes? When you can't even establish a categorical reason why humans can socailize meanings and purposes from cultures and languages alone, without invoking God.

2)"They could all be wrong, but certainly can’t all be right.": then even the Christian concept of God could be wrong, when insofar none of your logic and reasoning seem right.

3)The bible is the best selling book that's still preaching the "flat earth/dome-shaped sky" claim, against all natural evidences proving otherwise. And that's a fact.

4)In no ways that God can still claim that He wrote the bible himself, without Himself made His presence known directly to everyone in open public. Lack of transparency means lack of trust.

5)Historical evidences proved biblical accuracy? What about the moral, ethical, logical, and natural evidences that proved the relatively more fallacies in the bible?

6)The bible is also a record on just how much the Christian God had been wrong throughout history.

Last but not least, what's all that had got to do with the concept of Hell itself? Before you pull out even more red herrings logic fallacy, all the while you failed to challenge my argument.
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28 / M / Scotland, Aberdeen
Posted 4/11/11 , edited 4/12/11
So, endless torment or self-deception? Hmm, I wonder which one is spineless and cowardly. Maybe the latter one...
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