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She Was Asking For It - Abuse in Shoujo
Posted 4/10/13 , edited 4/10/13
I haven't read any manga/manhua that treats it like a good thing, fortunately. The closest is Miunohri to Swan, but several characters point out how wrong her accepting behavior is, and the girl later realizes that for herself and changes.
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Posted 4/10/13 , edited 4/10/13

mhibicke wrote:

I think that this thread was intended to address was not so much physical violence, but the "Rape = Love" theme underlying shoujo manga. It's not just shoujo, but yaoi and yuri as well, so basically all kinds of smex written by Japanese women. Even non-rape smex has obligatory protests of "no, you can't", "not there", etc. Smexless shoujo romances have the same themes, just with less penetration.

Apparently the smex universe has different rules from 3D, such as:
1) It's always your loved one's "first time"
2) No means yes
3) Yes means yes
4) If you love someone, you must rape them to prove your love
5) The more you love someone, the more you must rape them
6) The better you are at raping them, the more they will love you back
7) Abduction and sexual torture = marriage proposal

I don't understand the obsession with assaulting the one you love (or loving the one who assaults you), but apparently chicks dig it. If there was no demand, there would be no supply.

You know what, I really want to say something regarding numbers 2-6...but I should refrain from that...

Though, I suppose our case is a bit different >_>

REGARDLESS, I just realized the point. Shoujo manga does tend to have the heroine abused like hell, and Seinen manga tends to be completely different, and are either just flat out romance or comedy romance. Like Itoshi no Kana (which sadly ended far too soon)
Posted 4/10/13 , edited 4/10/13

TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:

magicuser360 wrote:

TheRealEscargotpudding wrote:

magicuser360 wrote:

For example, in the ever popular Hana Yori Dango (Boys Over Flowers) manga, the "hero" of the story treats the heroine badly; bullying her, degrading her, slapping her across the face quite a number of times. STILL not to extent of other mangas, but its sickening how the heroine constantly forgives and forgives his actions, yet during the course of the series (a whopping 36 volumes) he apologizes to her about five times. We're constantly told how "strong" and "brave" she is to stand up to him and the gang of bullies that torment her; yet the bullying is downplayed and "normalized" and the heroine still runs after the aggressive male.

And don't even get started on how yaoi plays with abusive relationships. If anything, that is even worse.

Why can't there be more series that feature a normal girl going after not the bad boy, but the nice, normal one that always finishes second best or last?

Actually, she doesn't fall for him until he changes himself. And she does not "forgive," she kicks him in the face.

He doesn't really change. He is still rude, mean, spoiled and a bad boy. She forgives him multiple times saying "I'm so sorry" or "I was wrong" or something along those lines. Never "HE was wrong and HE should apologize".

Despite this, she is not a weak, passive crybaby - but she does overlook the treatment far too easily.

If his treatment of her was comical, that would be another matter.

It isn't.


Pretty much the entirety of the manga, especially the earlier chapters where he bullies, belittles and slaps his way towards her.
Posted 4/10/13 , edited 4/10/13
Oh, feminism..expression of the age-old truth that no douchebag will accept.
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Posted 4/10/13 , edited 4/10/13
To all the people in this thread who are taking how common this is and the fact that most shoujo authors are women to mean that women want to be abused and/or raped, NO. A good majority of it likely comes from internalized misogyny; being raised in a culture that constantly pushes the idea that women should be submissive doormats to their spouses, it's not surprising that women come to believe that's acceptable, or even what they should want. Of course, it's also a cycle; by propagating these ideas in shoujo manga, new generations of girls learn it.

Even with women who do want to take a submissive role in their relationships, they are not looking for an abusive one. Healthy relationships with power play still maintain equality and consent through safewords and the like, whereas an abusive relationship tends to involve one partner dominating regardless of the other's wishes. There's a big difference.


In regards to the gender flipped version in shounen, there are some very clear differences. For one, girls hitting boys in shounen is often played off as slapstick comedy, and while that doesn't make it unproblematic, the difference in tone and circumstances changes a lot about what people are likely to take away from it. Another point would be that shounen heroes, even if they're with a tsundere girl who does this kind of thing, are still generally presented as being in control of the situation. He'll still have plotlines and interests other than his girlfriend. He'll still be independent. A lot of the time, he'll even be the one still making all of the decisions in his romantic relationships. Conversely, in shoujo manga, the heroine is often present as being distressingly dependent on mainting an unhealthy relationship, to the point of ignoring other things in her life and her own wants, and this is usually presented as a good thing.
Posted 4/10/13 , edited 4/11/13
When I think of shoujo I think of Fruit Baskets and OHSHC..I don't remember them being violent. And the only manga I read...or started to read that was shoujo was Ai Ore!, but I became disgusted with it.. But I am in agreement with the article that censorship is not the way to go.

An interesting book to read is Kickboxing Geishas, it's easy to generalize the life of women from other cultures based on stereo types. It's an interesting book, don't know how factual it is since I have never been to Japan.

Boys Over Flowers is such a vapid piece of work. When I first watched the anime I could not believe it. There is no one with any character in that one..not even Makino. Its the worst piece of trash I have ever seen and that includes some pretty bad hentai I've watched. I mean with hentai you know what your getting...Boys Over Flowers was like a sucker punch..unpleasantly unexpected. So, even the audience was being abused!!

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Posted 4/10/13 , edited 4/11/13
I kind of wonder if shoujo manga readers are all driven by internal misogyny, or if maybe they enjoy fantasizing about role reversal. The get to watch the "perfect woman" be abused and violated (in ways that they themselves would never tolerate), and obsess in the stupidest way possible about how to keep their abusive boyfriends happy. It's not that uncommon for people to enjoy feeling superior to others.
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Posted 4/11/13 , edited 4/12/13
I think it goes like this:

Women are "submissive"(they take this too far in manga)
Men are the dominant (likewise)
Extreme Aggressiveness +Extreme Control ="dominanance" (abuse)

Absuse = <3


Like how in some manga/anime a male character threatens to rape/absue the girl, she isn't offended, doesn't tell him off, only is embarrassed d. Like that's the way it's supposed to be. In the anime My Little Monster , the first episode he does this. So many comments I seen were like "I'd wish he'd say that to me >//<" "omg hot!"....

Seriously? Maybe some mistake rape as the man having control, so that = attractivesness? Even if that's the case, rape isn't having control, it's a lack therof.

Posted 4/11/13 , edited 4/12/13
It is the inherent misogyny of many anime/manga creators.
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Posted 8/4/13 , edited 8/5/13
OP nuked.

locked and closed
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