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2013 ★ BATTLE

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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

cay032692 wrote:


phong128992 wrote:

People give 10s way too easily. To think people said my MAL has high scores lol. Only 10s I have are for Code Geass, Steins; Gate, and probably Death Note if I ever watch it. Unbelievable that some people gave 2+ 10s on shows from 1 year alone.


Someone hasn't taken Statistics yet have they.
Just adding to your "Quoted" spam notification :D....as to your statement, some sows were higher than a 6 and some below 10, for example I gave LH a 10, my true rating for it is a 7.5 -> 8...while I gave Watamoe a 7 or was it a 6, but my true rating for that is a 8 (repetitive comedy but had it''s heart in the right place).....Now I know you know how averages work....so ergo TANK the shows you want gone with a 6, and promote the shows you want in with a 10......=P /scolded


In defense of phong128992, the rules of the ROTF match do say:


Note that you are to give each anime the score you think they deserve.


So, really giving some anime 10's and others 6's to "sabotage" the results is against Chrome's rules for this battle. If you don't feel normally an anime is a 10, then you don't really think it deserves a 10 and the same with a 6. I can see why Phong would assume those 10's are legit because they are supposed to be how you truly feel about the show and not inflated for this battle. Based on this rule, I rated each anime how I truly feel about them and did not try and manipulate a desired outcome.

Perhaps, as has been already suggested, next year a pick the 3 anime titles you want to return format would be best as it would cut out people trying to manipulate the vote as much with the averages.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

sonic720 wrote:
-----------------------.


Rules with many holes within them were destined to be broken. Especially if it is mathematically related with little objectivity.
One of the holes: at this point within this voting I believe this Show Deserves this score, in correlation to the rest. It still has what I think it deserves, hence the rule is still in tact.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

cay032692 wrote:
Rules with many holes within them were destined to be broken. Especially if it is mathematically related with little objectivity.
One of the holes: at this point within this voting I believe this Show Deserves this score, in correlation to the rest. It still has what I think it deserves, hence the rule is still in tact.


If you are looking for loopholes in the rules and not voting honestly with your true ratings, isn't that a dishonest vote? By your own admission, you are trying to game the system and get the outcome you want rather than giving them the scores you would normally give them. That just feels wrong to me and not in the spirit of a fair match.


Any score below 6 or above 10 is invalid. These animes made it into tourney proper, they can't possibly be that bad to deserve a 5 and below. This is also to avoid sabotaging a certain anime contestant's average score.


If I take the rate each anime with the score I think it deserves rule and then look also at this rule that talks about wanting to avoid sabotaging averages, then I think it's clear Chrome wanted us to rate things more in line with how we feel about the shows and not give 10 to the ones we want to go on and 6 to the ones we want to stay out. In that case we may as well replace 10 with "yes" and 6 with "no" and do a simple count; as the scores no longer reflect your normal rating you feel the show deserves, but only that you want one to advance over the others. The ratings become useless when they are used as a yes or no type of thing and it devalues the scores of those who voted honestly. It is not in the heart of the rules to vote that way as I read them, though you are right in saying there is technically a loophole to be exploited.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14
^Then again, I actually gave Sunday Without God a 5/10 in my real ratings, but was forced to give it a six by the tourney rules. In other words, the system gamed me like Keima games girls.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

sonic720 wrote:


cay032692 wrote:


phong128992 wrote:

People give 10s way too easily. To think people said my MAL has high scores lol. Only 10s I have are for Code Geass, Steins; Gate, and probably Death Note if I ever watch it. Unbelievable that some people gave 2+ 10s on shows from 1 year alone.


Someone hasn't taken Statistics yet have they.
Just adding to your "Quoted" spam notification :D....as to your statement, some sows were higher than a 6 and some below 10, for example I gave LH a 10, my true rating for it is a 7.5 -> 8...while I gave Watamoe a 7 or was it a 6, but my true rating for that is a 8 (repetitive comedy but had it''s heart in the right place).....Now I know you know how averages work....so ergo TANK the shows you want gone with a 6, and promote the shows you want in with a 10......=P /scolded


In defense of phong128992, the rules of the ROTF match do say:


Note that you are to give each anime the score you think they deserve.


So, really giving some anime 10's and others 6's to "sabotage" the results is against Chrome's rules for this battle. If you don't feel normally an anime is a 10, then you don't really think it deserves a 10 and the same with a 6. I can see why Phong would assume those 10's are legit because they are supposed to be how you truly feel about the show and not inflated for this battle. Based on this rule, I rated each anime how I truly feel about them and did not try and manipulate a desired outcome.

Perhaps, as has been already suggested, next year a pick the 3 anime titles you want to return format would be best as it would cut out people trying to manipulate the vote as much with the averages.


Yes, that was exactly the quote I was looking at. You basically read my mind. I guessed I should have included that part in my initial explanation. Also, to the guy saying I haven't taken statistics. I actually have taken it twice. Once in high school and once in college. Getting an A both times. Statistically the ranking would remain the same if it was truly the best series. The standard deviation would simply be less because we would not have an "outlier" (a higher score or lower then reality score in this case). For example, let's say we had ten people. Let's say 9 gave KLK a 8/10 and 1 decided to give it an 9/10. The resulting score would be an 8.1. Now let's we had 4 people give a 6/10, 2 give a 7/10, and then 4 give a 10/10. By the end of this one the score ends up being a 7.8 total. This was to stimulate people tanking the scores or promoting it to give it a 10/10. Initially when I posted this and scored the series I did it based on what I felt it deserved. Whether not the OP had the intention of letting people tank and promote scores wasn't something I really thought of. Nor did I think others would do as well. As long as EVERY single person did not give the same score, the rankings would have still worked out the same. This concept of statistics is no different than that of MAL. Most excellent animes end up being at the top because they were good. Had an anime from this list actually have been great, they would have placed in the top 3 no matter what. For example look at the top 3 other than Log Horizon on page 182. You'll notice a general uptrend in people voting a high score while a general downtrend occurs in series like Haganai or Watamote. (Then we also have series that have a mean of 7-8 like that Gargantia middle finger as stated lol)

Again, I did my voting and initial statement based on the fact that I assumed that we were grading based on what I thought they really deserved and not on the fact that I wanted a series to win. I don't care whether we're allowed to pad the score or not. I just placed my initial statement based on the fact I thought people were genuinely scoring on what "you think they deserve." in the most literal sense. I suppose it was stupid to assume that. That's why I was so surprised by all of the 10s hahaha. I hope my oversight didn't ruin the fun for you guys .
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

sonic720 wrote:we may as well replace 10 with "yes" and 6 with "no" and do a simple count; as the scores no longer reflect your normal rating you feel the show deserves, but only that you want one to advance over the others.
This is also a more valid method than assigning a ranking number, not to mention easier to count... It's already subjective whether you like a show or not. To add a gradient to how much you personally like or dislike a show isn't statistically useful. All it means statistically is that your opinion counts less than someone voting at either extreme end of the scale.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14
Does anyone else agree that using an "average" was bad? Coupled with the ruling that "you do not have to vote for every series."

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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14
This tournament...
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

GoldTStar wrote:

This tournament...


This post.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

TheGordianNot wrote:
So did we have a scene of Eren falling on the female Titan and accidentally touching her boobs? I can't recall right now, but that would be the final proof that we need.

Makes sense. I saw blushing, followed by the female acting aggressively toward the MC.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

AnimeKami wrote:Does anyone else agree with me that using an "average" was bad? Coupled with the ruling that "you do not have to vote for every series."
I agree that an average of arbitrary rankings is not the best method. With yes/no, you could still have non-votes and present the percent yes/no as an alternate to simple total counts of yes or no. That way shows that were less watched, but still considered good wouldn't suffer as much by comparison and so still might have a chance.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

asharka wrote:


sonic720 wrote:we may as well replace 10 with "yes" and 6 with "no" and do a simple count; as the scores no longer reflect your normal rating you feel the show deserves, but only that you want one to advance over the others.
This is also a more valid method than assigning a ranking number, not to mention easier to count... It's already subjective whether you like a show or not. To add a gradient to how much you personally like or dislike a show isn't statistically useful. All it means statistically is that your opinion counts less than someone voting at either extreme end of the scale.


Hmm that makes sense. It would have made more sense to allow everyone to pick say three yes and then the rest no. Then we could have eliminated the ones that had the least yes percent except for the top three. Heck we could have gotten people to rank their top three. I.e.


Person 1
1.KLK
2.Log Horizon
3.Haganai

Person 2
1.KLK
2.Haganai
3.Log Horizon

Person 3
1.KLK
2.Haganai
3.Log Horizon

Here for example we have KLK average at a rank of 3/3=1
Log Horizon being 8/3=2.67
Haganai being 7/3=2.33

This way would have seemed more objective as we give it a rank. Naturally people would still try to promote their favorite series. At least in this way though you can't tank other series by numbers as a yes or no was used in the initial stage. Although I'm sure this method would probably have its' own fallacies as well.

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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

sonic720 wrote:



I am already not allowed to vote with honestly with the constraint given, Just beacuse a show made it into a tourney does not mean I do not believe the score deserves below a 5. With a sample size that is so small, the fairness of the voting system is so intangible, that I could careless what this system is. It is a shame for those of you who wish for honesty but really, none of this matters in anyway, if the sample size of the voting had been much larger than it is, half of the shows that have made it so far wouldn't even be here. I think I am almost laughing a bit at the whole honesty justification being promote, the amount of bias within most vote being hilarious, and to hear it being promoted kinda irks me. Anyway Cool stuff.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14
I suppose the simple question would be.

Which anime do "you" want to win? This tournament is just the most twisted, non-linear method of approaching the goal. Which is more fun than a straight line.
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Posted 5/12/14 , edited 5/12/14

cay032692 wrote:


sonic720 wrote:



I am already not allowed to vote with honestly with the constraint given, Just beacuse a show made it into a tourney does not meab I do not believe the score deserves below a 5. With a sample size that is so small, the fairness of the voting system is so intangible, that I could careless what this system is. It is a shame for those of you who wish for honesty but really, none of this matters in anyway, if the sample size of the voting had been much larger than it is, half of the shows that have made it so far wouldn't even be here. I think I am almost laughing a bit at the whole honesty justification being promote, the amount of bias within most vote being hilarious, and to hear it being promoted kinda irks me. Anyway Cool stuff.




The objective of this tourney was to eliminate the bad ones. Naturally the constraints skew the scores, but it doesn't change the fact that you couldn't have voted for the closest possible score. If you (and everyone else) honestly believed it was a 5 or less a vote of 6 ( the lowest possible score) would have helped eliminate the anime regardless. Hence following with the objective of the tourney. Whether or not you could vote a 5 or not is not really the problem here since the objective is to eliminate animes and a low score would have eliminated it regardless.

Along with that I don't really think anyone here is promoting honesty in a sense. For example I just stated that I graded as honestly as I could and not giving a 6 because I want it to be eliminated or a 10 because I wanted it to move on. It doesn't mean I want others to do the same too. I just stated what I did. Obviously every vote here is biased. Heck almost every decision you make in your life is biased whether it's with emotions or with your actions etc. I'm not trying to promote honesty or anything.
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