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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/18/19

Insomnist wrote:


jcal94 wrote:

In other news, the UN is attempting to go after loli and shota material... 1. The UN still takes itself seriously? 2. Hasn't Japan told the UN to basically screw off before in regards to their manga/anime industry? 3. Does the UN seriously think that they'll be able to police loli/shota material on the scale which it exists? And why focus on it when real kids are being hurt elsewhere? Probably because they'd actually have to do something to stop the abuse of real children, most likely

I think this is the fourth year a UN committee initiative has specifically targeted the fictional sexualization of children or violence against women in Japan (in anime, manga, games, etc.). There is a possible good explanation: Japan has been lagging badly on its implementation and enforcement of laws concerning these things and real people, so in order to talk down the fictional parts they're pressured to concede on the important ones.

If that is the case it's an intelligent negotiation technique to earn key concessions where the Japanese government is dragging their feet, even if the pressure is only on the court of public opinion. If anything, the less hard power a UN committee has the better they need to leverage that kind of pressure to get anything done. However the older I get the more I see plain empty gesture politics directed towards a political base, so this could also just be emptyheaded.


The parallel that's usually gone for is gun violence in video games, but I think a clearer one might be reckless driving and road rage. People drive like maniacs in video games from Mario Kart to GTA, not to mention how it's a staple of hugely popular action films. Yet these people drive safely on their way to the supermarket or home from the movie theater, rarely even revving their engines at a stoplight. Those who don't drive safely didn't want to in the first place.

It would be absurd to ban Fast and Furious or Mad Max to combat reckless driving or road rage, arguing it encourages deviant behavior of a subset of the population who can't be trusted to be rational in the first place, because an intelligent observer knows they've watched those movies and been fine. It's just that with loli/shota/etc. it's very easy to only identify it's consumption with actual sex offenders if the observer already finds the material repugnant.


That said, when it comes to something as serious as sexual abuse (of children or otherwise) there could be strong evidence for more exceptionally stringent enforcement, just like there could be for gun ownership and how it impacts the rates of assaults and suicides. I'm at least not personally aware of such conclusive evidence, though. So if there isn't we're back to either negotiation technique or gesture politics (or simple legislated revulsion).

There could also be sampling bias; with the internet it wouldn't surprise me that most convicted sex offenders are found in possession of related hentai. But that doesn't settle the correlation or causation question; it's possible the material enables visualization, bringing them closer to actually committing a crime. It's also possible that it's a more sedative alternative, or that it differs by person. It's not clear to me how it necessarily fits into their behavior pattern.


Finally, and implied, it's a social offensive. There's definitely a correlation between Japan being more accepting of this fictional material, and more accepting of actual concerning social practices/norms; I've been led to understand Japan has a higher rate of groping and other forms of anonymous public assaults (upskirt pics, etc.) as well as compensated dating and the shadier parlors (sleeping, massage, etc.) which is part of what's "normal."

Actually trying to ban fictional material as the endgame I don't think would have much of an effect, however explicitly bringing up the discussion in a way that will be widely publicized can alter social views in general, optimally encouraging a positive shift in more important areas, not only in legislation, but in public opinion. Although my gut says if you're going to do that, you should just publicize the data on actual assaults that are harder to dismiss.


This turned into a much longer post than I anticipated.


Shenseiken wrote:

General Discussion was actually what brought me in to this community.

Yikes. Congratulations on your survival.


It could also well be that violent media draws individuals with innately aggressive tendencies that only exacerbates those tendencies, and not cause them to rise. Same with those type of materials. It is basically "All thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs."

In any case, the younger one is, the more impressionable one tends to be. This isn't simply children thinking what they see is real, but being more susceptible to these types of stimuli more than others, and here is where JCal94 has absolutely nailed it down; parents need to not only shield their children till they know they are capable of handling it but also being able to put those disturbing materials into context when they are seen.

In which I am honestly surprised at how great that parenting style is with your parents, @Jcal94. In my culture, we are often told to respect elder on the basis of their supposed wisdom, but much of it is just conceitedness that is the very antithesis of wisdom. Often, adults in my culture act under the beliefs that children do not know right from wrong, and that they should be seen and not heard.

There is a number of issues I take with this, namely that adults often forgo any actual discussion with their children for a lecture, if not solely a punishment. If there is anything studies on spanking seem to suggest, is that the type of parents who rely solely on spanking are also the type to think consoles are babysitters.

Actually talking to their child on the belief that they are capable of understanding some of the reasoning behind why they cannot do this or that is far more effective in the long run. Children may not be adults, but they are not idiots. Parents in general often do not realize how much children can understand, but the issue is much more apparent here. Relationships between parent and child ought to be based on some semblance of respect as well as love. If one wishes for their teenagers to transition into adulthood more easily, actually begin treating them like adults as well.

I don't have an issue with spanking, but I do have an issue with punishments being composed of nothing but spanking. Common sense says that corporal punishment may stop the child from behaving in a socially unacceptable manner, but it can also teach a child to believe the world is flat. Common sense is often wrong.

I remember Shenseiken. I also remember the "good old days" in General, when politics were nonexistent and I made pointless and overtly lascivious threads to express my imouto loving desires.
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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/18/19
Speaking of correlation, the latest translated chapter of Hiota no Kanojo ga Ore no Motteru Eroge ni Kyoumi Shinshin Nanda ga...... is developing around this sort of topic and eroge. Still an ongoing story arc though.
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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/18/19

PeripheralVisionary wrote:



I did follow it back. That was the biggest part of my concern with it and had hoped it was always unlisted so these depictions of violence with almost no context wasn't put forth to the public so officially in order to cause disgust towards its rather pointed title. Not many people would consider all the missing pieces. *man fires bullet through CGI skull of other armed man, both men are silent and stationary* It says nothing about the player's motivations or how human a player would consider that target. It offers no data or scientific inquiry in the video or its description about its effects. This clip is nearly useless for information beyond graphic capability. My thoughts were a lot closer to, "Man, the human body looks cool" than "I'm sure glad he killed that guy" leaving its submission here largely to conjecture based on clips from other games entirely. Allowing the message that violence happens, it's graphically created in video games, and it's being shown here on this channel because its a problem for society (and by its time relation to shootings) is the kind of irresponsibility I was trying to stress about conjecture and propaganda to the masses. It would seem by your criticism we agree. I did follow the thread. It was valuable and provocative for more science and parental considerations.

General Discussion was indeed mostly fun and interesting. I remember this jumper thread too. Going over the rest of this did have considerable impact. I do think moving GD as it was into the corner was a good decision for a stop gap measure. Its loss of traffic and viewpoints from this censorship is a disappointment though. I would like to see it brought back to the main page with tag options for title and opening post. I think there should be a significant grace period before new accounts can post new threads, but all of what I want to see happen is a pipe dream at this point. I sympathize.

Also, I'm quite surprised to be remembered from both my infrequency and my mostly dropping out of the forums for around a year shortly after GD moved. At some point I just decided I wanted to read and take part in more of the anime discussions. I think binging DitF might have been a significant catalyst.


@Insomnist Thanks. Though as I just said, I almost didn't. :P

-----------------------

About my thoughts on most all of this though, is that any information that is entirely fiction shouldn't be outright banned. I don't believe that we as humans will be ultimately corrupted by knowledge. That as individuals we can be taught to recognize fiction for what it is, and to recognize when to distance ourselves from it when we notice warning signs. Repression of information can be dangerous just as availability. A lot more science and responsible social outreach needs done to prevent potentially more harm than good to society and freedom there in.
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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/18/19
Honestly, I really wish at times such degenerates in that thread did not exist. How much good can exist in a person that would justify such disgusting evil, their very existence? Honestly, some of those individuals are parents, and I cannot help but think at times "Those children would thank me from freeing them from such disgusting parents".

Such people deserve to be bludgeoned to death with a sledgehammer. I did not think humans could sink to so banal yet so depraved a low.

Absolutely disturbing how prevalent this is.
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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/18/19
Edit: Mai is slaughtering Hinata and I don't get it.



Whoever spent a bunch of extra time gritting up this frame 27 years ago, thanks! It looks cool.
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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/19/19

Insomnist wrote:

Edit: Mai is slaughtering Hinata and I don't get it.



Whoever spent a bunch of extra time gritting up this frame 27 years ago, thanks! It looks cool.


Mai is waifuish and no one watched March Comes In Like A Lion Season 2.

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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/18/19

PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Mai is waifuish and no one watched March Comes In Like A Lion Season 2.


Pretty much this. Although to be fair, Hinata did crush Todoroki in the semifinals last year so a show's popularity isn't always the reason for a character winning. Mai has the advantage of being a great character from a popular show that is still fresh in everyone's memory.

Edit: What the hell? Your post was posted twice and the second one was the start of the next page, but when I posted this your duplicate was gone and this page isn't even close to being finished.
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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/19/19

PhantomGundam wrote:


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Mai is waifuish and no one watched March Comes In Like A Lion Season 2.


Pretty much this. Although to be fair, Hinata did crush Todoroki in the semifinals last year so a show's popularity isn't always the reason for a character winning. Mai has the advantage of being a great character from a popular show that is still fresh in everyone's memory.

Edit: What the hell? Your post was posted twice and the second one was the start of the next page, but when I posted this your duplicate was gone and this page isn't even close to being finished.


Ghost post!

The idea here is sequel followings. Remember all the raving people use to do about Attack on Titan, and how all the hubbub relegated to the fandom? Attack on Titan was unknown to many when its anime adaptation debuted, alongside many other series, and combined with the overall focus on plot development in anime requiring sequential episode viewing, fewer people will watch the subsequent seasons, and there will be less talk overall.

March Comes In Like a Lion is a series that doesn't lend itself to a fandom like Attack on Titan or Fullmetal Alchemist, so it suffers more in that department of being talked about. People like the new. That's why people will go after seasonals versus plowing through their back catalog.
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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/18/19
I finished Tekkaman Blade (1992, 49 eps). 80s aesthetic, animation regularly looked great. Not much actual story: villains are parasitic space bugs trying to colonize Earth, they take over a few human hosts who can then transform into Tekkaman (the titular mechs). The protagonist escapes, so he has to use his new power to kill his brainwashed family and friends to protect humanity--which is a nice hook, but doesn't deliver much in practice (and goes on forever).

Personal 3/10: exactly the ordinary show you'd expect, no particular surprises or memorable moments that would impact the score. I think the art team did a really nice job but I haven't seen enough similar series to compare quality levels (my only reference point for this genre-era is Armored Trooper Votoms, which I liked more but predates Tekkaman by nearly a decade). If you're into the era and fine with boilerplate sci-fi it could be a +5/10 and worth trying.

(If you get bored you can skip ahead to episode 22, you won't miss anything that's not frequently recapped. You can skip more in the late 20s and early 30s but I don't remember a guaranteed good point to jump back in on.)

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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/18/19

"I knew that as she fell into his outstretched arms, she was forever beyond my grasp. Yet, my love for her persisted in spite of the impossibility of its requitement. I still loved her, enough to let her move on to a happiness beyond me, but too much to ever let her go. I knew at this point that I lost, but in the end, I did not care for myself.

I swore on that day, that even if I could not be her knight, then at the very least, I could be her pawn."



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Posted 2/18/19 , edited 2/19/19

Shenseiken wrote:



I remember following that.


Oh, you did? Ha, I'm kind of embarrassed now; I've leveled up twice since writing all that. I think I'd take a far more measured approach than just flat-out saying that the person showed all the signs of not knowing what she was talking about.

Though I am rather happy the conversation happened in the first place: it made me realize I was basing my opinion on the relationship between violent video games and violence IRL on the loud objections to the notion that they're correlated, rather than on the authority of sources that actually know what they're talking about. And I was pleasantly surprised to see that the scientists actually doing the research have exactly the attitude I'd hope they'd have — that of the quote you liked.

I think I'd say criticism has to sit atop science, though.



Yes, Satania would also help.

You'd think I'd have learned after I watched The Exorcist by myself, at night — and in bed — but no. Well, I can confirm that Hereditary is really good, as it kept me up even longer than The Exorcist did.

I'd say my favorite aspect was that it was blaringly obvious the characters in Hereditary were rather empty, like the mother's figurines — but that their emptiness was entirely believable for our society. In The Exorcist, you knew the family was lacking something, but the mother still had enough of a grounding that she at least knew to get help from the church. In Hereditary there isn't even that: any sense of mental or spiritual health came only from the grief management meeting the mother went to but didn't take seriously, or the medication everyone in the family was on.

i actually knew what happened before I watched it, because I read a review; but I didn't expect
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Posted 2/19/19 , edited 2/19/19

auroraloose wrote:


Shenseiken wrote:



I remember following that.


Oh, you did? Ha, I'm kind of embarrassed now; I've leveled up twice since writing all that. I think I'd take a far more measured approach than just flat-out saying that the person showed all the signs of not knowing what she was talking about.

Though I am rather happy the conversation happened in the first place: it made me realize I was basing my opinion on the relationship between violent video games and violence IRL on the loud objections to the notion that they're correlated, rather than on the authority of sources that actually know what they're talking about. And I was pleasantly surprised to see that the scientists actually doing the research have exactly the attitude I'd hope they'd have — that of the quote you liked.

I think I'd say criticism has to sit atop science, though.

The juxtaposition of high-minded elegance and obnoxious passion is how I'd concisely describe a certain teleporter, and the video game violence discussion was one of the first things I thought of in A Certain Relative Thread. Though I believe I have noticed a marked difference in approach now. While the subject was uncomfortable and direction felt disagreeably farfetched for a while, I was glad someone took such an adversarial stance as it really did seem to push everyone involved to a better place. I quite liked the result I got from it, and the ride was selfishly entertaining. I think it was fine that the arguments then happened with mostly conjecture so long as it provoked the idea of study before resolution, and in this case - science was recognized instead.


I think I just poorly illustrated myself on the mark of criticism. Like a great number of ideas, science happens because of curiosity and conjecture (also money and ego, but I'm trying to be pure here) and creates more of it. With some high-minded pursuits like politics and philosophy, most wouldn't claim them to be objective truths which is what science often gets confused for offering. So I aimed to place a heavier emphasis of criticism on science than other pursuits people take more skeptically since pretentiousness can quickly get out of hand when people think scientists set the rules.

Going over these posts and what you've said on expertise, it would seem you take a stance that science is as subjective as many other pursuits. It's methods are just cleaner than most. Perhaps I will start looking at science in a broader philosophical approach than methodical. Progress is indeed an amusing battle of cohesion and criticism.

Edit:
And together, we will criticize the heavens!

(I felt my post was missing a deserving amount of propaganda.)

OT: Early in A Certain Scientific Railgun Kuroko mocks Kongo's one-sided rivalry with her limited understanding of higher dimensional space. As someone with with a poor grasp myself, I start thinking of an old amusing demonstration by Carl Sagan of an apple invading a two dimensional entity's world to communicate, and how bizarre the whole experience would seem. The point being, I thought that it was implying that Kuroko's specialty was translating something observed as teleportation to higher dimensional movement. I wondered if there was a rational connection here, or pure fantasy.

-----------



How contemporary!
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Posted 2/19/19 , edited 2/19/19
I feel like by the end of this season, I will go into 'Nam Flashback Mode every time I hear "Mya-nee!"
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Posted 2/19/19 , edited 2/19/19

jcal94 wrote:

I feel like by the end of this season, I will go into 'Nam Flashback Mode every time I hear "Mya-nee!"


Wither in despair at the offerings of this one absolute madman! You can not escape Hinata. Just as society can not escape profane artistry.
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Posted 2/19/19 , edited 2/19/19

Shenseiken wrote:


jcal94 wrote:

I feel like by the end of this season, I will go into 'Nam Flashback Mode every time I hear "Mya-nee!"


Wither in despair at the offerings of this one absolute madman! You can not escape Hinata. Just as society can not escape profane artistry.


I already had progress on that playlist

This week's episode had a "Mya-nee!" on average less than every 30 seconds... At 23 minutes for an episode, and 48 "Mya-nee!"s.... It gets even worse when you don't count the about 3 minutes the OP and ED take up

Speaking of profane artistry... I have a feeling the "Noa dressed as Mya-nee" thing is gonna solicit some profane artistry

I also like the joke that Hinata's mom is the UN with how she picked up Hinata when she was sick
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