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Posted 2/24/19 , edited 2/24/19
Boogiepop & Others OP has such a good song. The visuals seem random at best though, I don't get the directing.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I like the idea of Kino's Journey . The idea of traveling to off far regions with foreign cultures abiding by a different set of rules governed by different beliefs is interesting. Best of all, it isn't necessarily cultures completely stepped in realism, but of more fantastical ideals abridged in one fictional microcosm of "What if". It explores ideas and circumstances that aren't possible in some senses of the word bit nonetheless pertinent to our world.

That being said, I ended up disliking the series. Kino's tolerance comes off as apathy, and she doesn't so much participate and engage with these cultures as she does watch.

The tourist spectates, and the traveler does. Kino's being as passive as she was may have worked, but considering how horrible some of the places are, it is simply grating if not completely reducing her to a nonperson.



The series would have been much richer if Kino simply asked the hard questions, but it was mostly swept under.

OT: I began Asobi Workshop. Where was this show all my life?

I appreciated that as a series it didn't pretend like one Hollywood hotshot with two pistols and a talking motorcycle could roll in and change any society in half an hour with a commercial break. Not about that being right or wrong, but having the focus be on taking everything in rather than jumping to interventionism and "making the world right."

The one time she did they at least had the sense to make it take a full hour. XD

Plus if the story "fixes" its own thought experiment then there's nothing for the audience to think about.

That's just echo-chambering, you either accept or reject but it doesn't encourage you to think.

While Kino follows a philosophy many of the stories prompt questions of it in some way.

Then there was The Tower special episode where Kino did roll in and moralize her socks off for half an hour and it completely saps any ability for the scenario to have any depth or be thought provoking at all (imo) because Kino spent the whole screen time shooting her mouth off instead of there being any inclination to do any evocative world building.

It was a fantastic way to immediately knee-cap my high after finishing the TV series though I guess.

Edit: This post is kinda interventionist lol.
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Posted 2/24/19 , edited 2/25/19
I only saw remember the recent Kino series and in that one my favorite episode was the one with Photo
80856 cr points
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Posted 2/24/19 , edited 2/24/19

It's so tempting to drop a Drake meme but this is our safe space so I will abstain.

We've done so well here over the years with political stuff, it's kind of amazing.
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Posted 2/24/19 , edited 2/25/19
Here's what I got out of Cross Ange.
(picture time)


More seriously though, it was filled with a lot of schlock and Embryo lost whatever higher ground he might have been pushing for by treating all lives not in his court like lab rats in his designs - particularly when he decides to change gears. It made him far less interesting to me. I think if you're going to enjoy Cross Ange, then you have to enjoy it for weird mecha and pretty girls in awkward situations foremost.
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25 / M / Nagoya, Japan
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Posted 2/24/19 , edited 2/25/19

Insomnist wrote:


It's so tempting to drop a Drake meme but this is our safe space so I will abstain.

We've done so well here over the years with political stuff, it's kind of amazing.


I didn't want to start any political debates or anything, so my bad if it seemed like that. I just was watching part 2 of the dub, and was reminded how Felt goes "I hate the nobles! I hate the knights! If I become queen, I'm getting rid of you all!", and I instantly thought "She's gonna drain the swamp" I want Felt to win the throne now just for the pure meme value. We already have Tanya and Megumin, we could use a third loli for red hat memes
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Posted 2/24/19 , edited 2/25/19
Boogiepop #9 was entertaining.
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23 / M / An Imouto's Lap
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Posted 2/25/19 , edited 2/25/19

Insomnist wrote:

Boogiepop & Others OP has such a good song. The visuals seem random at best though, I don't get the directing.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

I like the idea of Kino's Journey . The idea of traveling to off far regions with foreign cultures abiding by a different set of rules governed by different beliefs is interesting. Best of all, it isn't necessarily cultures completely stepped in realism, but of more fantastical ideals abridged in one fictional microcosm of "What if". It explores ideas and circumstances that aren't possible in some senses of the word bit nonetheless pertinent to our world.

That being said, I ended up disliking the series. Kino's tolerance comes off as apathy, and she doesn't so much participate and engage with these cultures as she does watch.

The tourist spectates, and the traveler does. Kino's being as passive as she was may have worked, but considering how horrible some of the places are, it is simply grating if not completely reducing her to a nonperson.



The series would have been much richer if Kino simply asked the hard questions, but it was mostly swept under.

OT: I began Asobi Workshop. Where was this show all my life?

I appreciated that as a series it didn't pretend like one Hollywood hotshot with two pistols and a talking motorcycle could roll in and change any society in half an hour with a commercial break. Not about that being right or wrong, but having the focus be on taking everything in rather than jumping to interventionism and "making the world right."

The one time she did they at least had the sense to make it take a full hour. XD

Plus if the story "fixes" its own thought experiment then there's nothing for the audience to think about.

That's just echo-chambering, you either accept or reject but it doesn't encourage you to think.

While Kino follows a philosophy many of the stories prompt questions of it in some way.

Then there was The Tower special episode where Kino did roll in and moralize her socks off for half an hour and it completely saps any ability for the scenario to have any depth or be thought provoking at all (imo) because Kino spent the whole screen time shooting her mouth off instead of there being any inclination to do any evocative world building.

It was a fantastic way to immediately knee-cap my high after finishing the TV series though I guess.

Edit: This post is kinda interventionist lol.


Honestly, everything is propaganda. Many people like to reserve such a term for works advocating ideas they dislike, but the very practice of advocating a viewpoint is inherent in every and any creative media. The very idea of logic relies on the very notion that every other viewpoint is inferior with such and such reasoning. After all, if there lies an opinion better than our own in conclusion, than wouldn't it be our opinion as well? By nature of its, well....nature, we apply these things universally. We may not deny that others like or dislike this series, but that doesn't mean we think they are not mistaken when we say "Cross Ange was a good show and they do not agree. It either is or it is not, and stating that others do not share it does not resolve the matter of disagreement.

Morality in particularly is by nature "interventionist"; it demands when you and I see wrong, we do something about it, and such principles also govern what we choose to do and not do about it, be it intervening all the time or not intervening at all. That too is a matter of self-imposed ethics and morality.

To which one could say all stories are fictional echo chambers. Yet, the very idea of disliking the of idea advocation boils down to lambasting every media for simply existing, and that is simply an impalatable conclusion to me. Instead of people becoming fearful that there is a message being conveyed to them and subsequently criticizing it from an "objective and morally neutral" standpoint (Such a pretentious display, really) for its methodology, it is ought to be accepted that if one wishes to consume media, that they ought to accept the idea that any creative output will inherently contain and advocate the ideas of its creator or creators, born of a culture that may be far different than our own.

To consume media and yet to disapprove of half of them based on what they have all done, cannot avoid doing, and will continue to do is horribly inconsistent. I like stories in general because they are indirect conversations with writers that could be long gone from our world, but who have been immortalized in their scriptures. I dislike many of the stories that I do specifically because I simply do not agree with them in practice or in spirit, not because they do not encourage the audience to think on conclusions not held by the author. It is the audience's own responsibility on whether or not to mindlessly agree, and simply of the author to explain what their viewpoint is and why it should be shared. Whether or not something advocates thought could really be said to depend on how much any individual reader has a disagreement with it, but that is a lengthy topic.

This is not to say that some works encourage readers like ourselves think more than others and to do so effectively, but that all works are the same in the manner of advocation, including Kino's Journey. The point of contention is often what we think the author wishes to say, and if they did achieve it in an effective manner. Essentially, the conclusion and its supporting arguments.

I could bitch about the idea of moral interventionism (Depends on what it is defined as such) and moralizing, but here's the reason I call it pretentious; it is the same sort of trivial discussion that left 100k people in Rwanda dead while self-absorbed politicians patted themselves on the back for not acting.

To which my initial dislike of Kino's Journey was originally the belief that the fear of moral crusading seemingly glorified under the words of tolerance and acceptance, and that is what myself fear, but I am also frightened by the idea of its polar extreme; people forgetting how to condemn others on moral disagreement, or that cultural relativism is anything more than a sociopolitical concept than a legitimate moral system to abide by.
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Posted 2/25/19 , edited 2/25/19

Shenseiken wrote:

Here's what I got out of Cross Ange.
(picture time)


More seriously though, it was filled with a lot of schlock and Embryo lost whatever higher ground he might have been pushing for by treating all lives not in his court like lab rats in his designs - particularly when he decides to change gears. It made him far less interesting to me. I think if you're going to enjoy Cross Ange, then you have to enjoy it for weird mecha and pretty girls in awkward situations foremost.


It was filled with A LOT of fetishism, and the series kind of forced Embryo into the bad guy position because it needed to in order to keep with its theme. That part disappointed me quite a bit, I still found the series interesting though.

It was Embryo's circumstances that stimulated the most thought in me though. For a lot of people this type of thinking is going into like horrible unforgivable territory, but it always makes me wonder, would a person with godly powers have any reason to actually be influenced by morality. That is to say, everything to such a person holds no more weight than a computer simulation does to us. There are no permanent consequences. So rather than being evil for some personal gain, I'd expect Embryo to see committing mass genocide equal to just randomly running people over in GTA5 because you are bored.

So rather than seeing Embryo as some evil force oppressing our heroines. I kind of saw the series as like Fable, except the player is the antagonist and the protagonists are the NPCs.

—————

I kind of have a habit of ignoring the bad portions of a story if I find something really interesting. That is to say I replace the things I think the author messed up on with my own head canon. In the case of cross ange it isn’t even that though, I don’t much care about the resolution of the story I just like how it makes the gears in my brain turn.
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Posted 2/25/19 , edited 2/26/19
Spoilered for size.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Honestly, everything is propaganda. Many people like to reserve such a term for works advocating ideas they dislike, but the very practice of advocating a viewpoint is inherent in every and any creative media.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

The very idea of logic relies on the very notion that every other viewpoint is inferior with such and such reasoning. After all, if there lies an opinion better than our own in conclusion, than wouldn't it be our opinion as well?

Related: Karl Popper gave us a life-changing upgrade to how the scientific method works in the 1950s that everyone should know because it's simple, broadly applicable, and massively important (link is to a quick CrashCourse video on the topic -- this killed inductivism in 4 years after it reigned for over 400).


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

The very idea of logic relies on the very notion that every other viewpoint is inferior with such and such reasoning. After all, if there lies an opinion better than our own in conclusion, than wouldn't it be our opinion as well?

By nature of its, well....nature, we apply these things universally. We may not deny that others like or dislike this series, but that doesn't mean we think they are not mistaken when we say "Cross Ange was a good show and they do not agree. It either is or it is not, and stating that others do not share it does not resolve the matter of disagreement.




PeripheralVisionary wrote:

Morality in particularly is by nature "interventionist"; it demands when you and I see wrong, we do something about it, and such principles also govern what we choose to do and not do about it, be it intervening all the time or not intervening at all. That too is a matter of self-imposed ethics and morality.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

To which one could say all stories are fictional echo chambers. Yet, the very idea of disliking the of idea advocation boils down to lambasting every media for simply existing, and that is simply an impalatable conclusion to me. Instead of people becoming fearful that there is a message being conveyed to them and subsequently criticizing it from an "objective and morally neutral" standpoint (Such a pretentious display, really) for its methodology, it is ought to be accepted that if one wishes to consume media, that they ought to accept the idea that any creative output will inherently contain and advocate the ideas of its creator or creators, born of a culture that may be far different than our own.

To consume media and yet to disapprove of half of them based on what they have all done, cannot avoid doing, and will continue to do is horribly inconsistent. I like stories in general because they are indirect conversations with writers that could be long gone from our world, but who have been immortalized in their scriptures. I dislike many of the stories that I do specifically because I simply do not agree with them in practice or in spirit, not because they do not encourage the audience to think on conclusions not held by the author. It is the audience's own responsibility on whether or not to mindlessly agree, and simply of the author to explain what their viewpoint is and why it should be shared. Whether or not something advocates thought could really be said to depend on how much any individual reader has a disagreement with it, but that is a lengthy topic.


PeripheralVisionary wrote:

This is not to say that some works encourage readers like ourselves think more than others and to do so effectively, but that all works are the same in the manner of advocation, including Kino's Journey. The point of contention is often what we think the author wishes to say, and if they did achieve it in an effective manner. Essentially, the conclusion and its supporting arguments.

I could bitch about the idea of moral interventionism (Depends on what it is defined as such) and moralizing, but here's the reason I call it pretentious; it is the same sort of trivial discussion that left 100k people in Rwanda dead while self-absorbed politicians patted themselves on the back for not acting.

To which my initial dislike of Kino's Journey was originally the belief that the fear of moral crusading seemingly glorified under the words of tolerance and acceptance, and that is what myself fear, but I am also frightened by the idea of its polar extreme; people forgetting how to condemn others on moral disagreement, or that cultural relativism is anything more than a sociopolitical concept than a legitimate moral system to abide by.
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23 / M / An Imouto's Lap
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Posted 2/26/19 , edited 2/26/19
Gosh, this site is freaking garbage. I am under principles at this point to not support this bull crock. Darn you, Ellation.
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Posted 2/26/19 , edited 2/26/19
I'm half surprised we're back, I thought they might've finally pulled the plug.
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Posted 2/26/19 , edited 2/26/19
The forums are working again?! Finally we can enter threads again.
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Posted 2/26/19 , edited 2/26/19

PhantomGundam wrote:

The forums are working again?! Finally we can enter threads again.

Still can't make new ones though.
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Posted 2/26/19 , edited 2/26/19

Insomnist wrote:

I'm half surprised we're back, I thought they might've finally pulled the plug.


Thought so too. I figured they just decided to end the forums and act like it's only a bug that they would never fix. I could understand a few hours, but for most of the day? That's just sad.
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Posted 2/26/19 , edited 2/26/19
I should probably back up my Crunchy oeuvre.
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Posted 2/26/19 , edited 2/26/19
Finished Kino 2k3. Some guy made a good case for Kino’s real name being Lily and I think he’s right. When the kids were making fun of her one of them was slapping his ass, Shiri -> Riri -> Lily.
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