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Posted 3/5/19 , edited 3/5/19
Katsute Kami Datta Kemono-tachi e is getting an anime adaptation and it took me one month to realize it .
I read the first few chapters half a year ago and actually planned to binge read the rest of the translated chapters this spring (when I have the time to). Would've been pretty annoying to find out about the anime adaptation after reading seven volumes of the manga (especially because not all of them are available on "free sites").
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Posted 3/5/19 , edited 3/5/19

srlan23 wrote:

Katsute Kami Datta Kemono-tachi e is getting an anime adaptation and it took me one month to realize it .
I read the first few chapters half a year ago and actually planned to binge read the rest of the translated chapters this spring (when I have the time to). Would've been pretty annoying to find out about the anime adaptation after reading seven volumes of the manga (especially because not all of them are available on "free sites").

I hope it's really good.
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Posted 3/5/19 , edited 3/5/19

Insomnist wrote:

I put myself out there but we'll see if I actually know what I'm talking about or not.


Eh, don't worry so much about it. That's what we all do every time we talk, whatever it is we're talking about — put ourselves out there as knowing something. You did in fact teach me something: that Popper is viewed as attacking inductivism. That never really registered for me, even though the paper I linked was assigned reading for the philosophy of science class I took.


Insomnist wrote:

A lot of what I think I know is just anecdotes from all over, so when I have the energy I'm happy to see how they fair in conversation since talking with other people is the quickest way to find out where I'm wrong about anything.

The mere ability to speak about such things is impressive in my book, wherever it came from. I tend to read primary sources, but I hear about the primary sources from articles and random conversation. And you're absolutely right: talking is essential. Which is one of the reasons I blather here...


Insomnist wrote:
I was probably far too emphatic in my word choice, I did a quick Wikipedia delve for terms and understood that Aristotelianism was the mainstream until Francis Bacon introduced inductivism, and then in the 1960s "classical inductivism" was replaced in the mainstream by "empirical falsification" through Karl Popper and Thomas Kuhn.

I also like it because I mentioned I lean (also with a very elementary understanding) towards constructivism, so I like falsifiability's stance that all theories are merely accepted in the interim until they're disproved and replaced by other theories, with none ever accepted as actual done truth because I don't think that's ever cognitively attainable.


On the contrary, that you were so emphatic is what caught my attention in the first place. While it perhaps is best not to be emphatic about things we don't know, it's hard to judge levels of emphasis. I'm definitely too emphatic about the things I care about; I'm also happy there are people out there who care a lot about arcana like inductivism. And around here, you're not likely to lead astray anyone who desperately needs a proper understanding of inductivism, because it's an anime forum — no one is expecting accurate, detailed treatments of modern philosophy.

I'm rather Kuhnian in my perspective, so yeah, I too lean towards a social constructivism of science. But I do think theories are true to some extent; it's just an obscured truth. Truth is a thing that can be expressed many ways — at least in physics. I don't remember at all why, but when I took that philosophy of science class I found myself disliking both inductivism and hypothetico-deductivism. To me the Feyrabendian "anything goes" makes the most sense.
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Posted 3/6/19 , edited 3/6/19

xxJing wrote:

Haha yeah it was Crendor. I like Crendor because I can relate to his personality about enjoying weird immersive aspects of things, also he’s more about doing what he enjoys than doing what’s popular. WoW in the beginning still had a lot of immersion to it, the dungeons were definitely better than most that came before it. It just got me thinking that the less punishing MMOs got, the less you really cared to pay attention to what you were doing, and ultimately a lot of that immersion just disappeared.

Alright so here's my sales pitch for Mystera Legacy. A 16bit indie MMO balanced around modest server populations.

(If you're not interested no foul, I'm working on new player wiki pages atm so typing all this out actually helps.)


Without players this would be grass, everything in the game is owned, operated, and maintained by players. It's also open pvp, and structures are destructible, so the towers are an anti-raiding/vandalism measure. The game is made up of multiple maps: the two largest are where you can build, the others are connector maps or adventuring areas with monsters and other resources. There's also an underground level for basements, and a procedurally-generated Underworld.

    Exceptions: Several maps are non-pvp, including one where you can build (but there are xp gain penalties and lower skill caps there). There's also a small map with indestructible homes you can rent. This poses one of the design problems for the game, by creating safe spaces to escape raiders or griefers you also give a place for raiders and griefers to chill and hoard, it's an annoying cycle but at least means they can't make your life constant hell.

    (How this actually plays out depends on the server: some are more wholesome, others more violent, and a few are fairly toxic. So that's just the give-and-take of significant player agency in such an unregulated space.)

Death penalties are much lighter than they once were, but at high levels you still have a 1/3rd chance to drop each inventory item and you lose 5% of your xp in all skills (character level is also based off the sum of your skill xp, so you will lose character levels as well). This can be a royal pain as several skills are quite difficult or expensive to level. There is a prestige-type system where you can lock in skill levels and gain other perks, but it's a very time-consuming grind.


Each star is 10 levels, the blue ones I've locked in. There are 35 skills, ranging from weapons and armor to assassin, farming, different crafting skills, construction, fishing, etc.; all you gain from character levels is 2hp and the ability to equip better gear, power comes from skills, gear, upgrades, and abilities. You get myst from killing things (not players) and can spend it on upgrades which can increase your max level cap in skills, hitpoints, dodge, crit, etc.

Abilities cover stuff like AoE damage, healing, and crowd control. These are learned from books that you can find in the Underworld (or from beating bosses). Abilities come in various ranks and can be forgotten on use, so there's a healthy demand for books. There's also a research skill that lets you use higher ranked abilities more reliably. Finally there are also random character traits that influence different stats, and you can get more than one the longer you play.

    (The prestige system is the best way to grind traits though, without it requires deaths to gain or reroll them.)

The Underworld is a simple procedurally-generated dungeon, there are a couple different tile sets and each level is a 100x100 maze essentially (although the walls are destructible). The deeper you go the more riches you find, but mobs also get very threatening very fast. Combat is okay but not super tight. Some people are really good at it though and can get to floors in the 200s; I stick around 60 since after that liches and mind flayers start showing up and they're rough.

    Mobs are also built around synergies: one might slow you, another might debuff you, a third might heal other mobs, so the deeper you go the more you have to deal with and the more dangerous the combinations get. You can definitely end up in situations blasting adrenaline trying desperately to survive because ohfuckohshitohfuckohshitohfuckohshitOHGODANOTHERLICH and you can't port out while in combat. I lived with single-digit HP once lol.

    (If you die anywhere in the game unreclaimed drops go into the bone pile loot table in the Underworld after one hour, and can be retrieved on floors at or above your level at death. Difficulty doesn't really scale 1:1 though, like I'm currently capped at character level 100 but there's no way I could make it to floor 100 and live. Better delvers can find your stuff though, they might return it or keep it or you can pay for its retrieval if they're down for that.)

The Underworld is also where you mine gems for enchanting which is important for the best gear.

My main draw is the player shops though, almost all items are player-made and the best ones definitely are. You can also rename items to make them sound appropriately legendary or silly. The entire economy is players, there are no NPCs or non-player shops. It's an indie game so updates aren't super fast, but they're steady, and all subscriber perks are basic aesthetics. Presently there are two bosses available which can drop books and give a lot of myst.

Drawbacks are that servers can get quite toxic and there aren't many ways to control for powerful players running amok. In ye olden days the game was just one map, full pvp, and no logout, so you could get back at people and even build a prison around them as they slept if you managed to take out their base. But with safe maps and logging out (as well as new /unstuck commands and some other mechanics) wars are at an impasse and will likely stay that way.

    (There's an infamy system that's supposed to penalize criminal behavior with stacking debuffs, but griefers can also leverage that against you to a degree as well. So it's a problem without a strict solution which sucks.)

The root problem I think is there aren't many incentives to recruit new players, make larger tribes (clans/guilds), or maintain a healthier community, so you can see a cycle where somebody grinds to the endgame, gets bored, complains about everything they don't like, blames the dev, and starts griefing the server "cause they don't care anymore" (but apparently care enough to not quit and go play something else for some reason--sunk cost fallacies for the most part).

So it's a mixed bag, I love it but sometimes you have to put up with other people's problems if you want to stay.

Also items have durability as well and if they hit 0 are destroyed; makes inventory management a bit hardcore.

I've been playing for 2.5 years though (with two breaks for WoW) and I don't know of any other MMO that scratches my itch for player economy and crafting like this. Nothing has any kind of vendor value, it's all just up to whether somebody might want it. Everything being player built as well is cool, the available aesthetics for buildings are low key but it's still fun to build your own place and be part of a town (though a great deal of it lacks decent urban planning).

Last drawback is the time sink, it's grindy but it also requires frequent play since structures take gradual damage you need to repair. The decay rate is 2.875% with a chance to tick every 8 hours now, so you can go 5 days before stuff starts to hit 50%. Structures above 90% take 75% less damage, above 50% takes 50% less damage, and below takes full damage. Stone walls start at 300K, an endgame player can take that down from 100% in 50 minutes.

So it's just kind of important to not leave stuff lying around that'd draw raiders unless you've built a Fort Knox. Many larger bases will have thick circles of walls and towers with overlapping fields of fire, but upkeep then takes longer. If you're interested I'd recommend the USEast2 server, I've been there for a year now and it's a nice place. I spent 1.5 years on another server but I'm highly conflict-averse so when shit hit the fan there I peaced out and started over.

In my experience healthy play has been play for what you enjoy today, cause tomorrow it might all be on fire...



Frankly though I'm shocked there isn't more of a polished 16bit MMO scene, they must be so much cheaper to run and there's a lot you can do with simple gameplay mechanics and sprites. I'm surprised they're such a niche commodity.


Thanks. And you've given me several terms to google today.
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Posted 3/6/19 , edited 3/6/19

Insomnist wrote:

I hope it's really good.


Me too. The concept is pretty interesting, I like the design of the beasts and it's nice to see a fantasy world based on 19th century America and not medieval Europe for a change. It'd be a shame if the adaptation ended up being a rushed low budget production.
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Posted 3/6/19 , edited 3/6/19
Think Derek Jacobi pushes me over the edge for the Tolkien movie. I'll probably go see it now.
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Posted 3/7/19 , edited 3/7/19
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Posted 3/7/19 , edited 3/7/19
Tsugumomo is getting a second season in 2020. I wonder if that'll be enough episodes to get them out of the boring stuff.

They also crowdfunded an OVA for the same year to cover "slightly ecchi episodes that can't be broadcast on TV."
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Posted 3/7/19 , edited 3/7/19
Tsugumomo was such a weird show. It had some really cool moments of lore and fighting. It had some hilarious and cute character moments. I loved the segment of Kiriha being a brat, but being just redeemable enough to go to the grocery store and then improvising this adorable display of her pouring her child heart out singing for pudding. How can I share this moment though when the show can just be so oddly degenerate at times. I'm glad anime is a medium that it doesn't have to hold back... as much, but it squarely lands it into a guilty pleasure watch.

Glad to hear there's more on the way.

Also, thanks for introducing me to CrashCourse. Seems like a decent spring board for some topics.
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Posted 3/7/19 , edited 3/7/19

Shenseiken wrote:

Tsugumomo was such a weird show. It had some really cool moments of lore and fighting. It had some hilarious and cute character moments. I loved the segment of Kiriha being a brat, but being just redeemable enough to go to the grocery store and then improvising this adorable display of her pouring her child heart out singing for pudding. How can I share this moment though when the show can just be so oddly degenerate at times. I'm glad anime is a medium that it doesn't have to hold back... as much, but it squarely lands it into a guilty pleasure watch.

Glad to hear there's more on the way.

It transforms completely once they commit to the fantasy setting and stop trying to be a school harem. The fanservice also goes up exponentially. I blasted through the manga really fast though so I have no sense of how much story is left before that arc starts and where the first anime ended, there could be enough left for the whole season.

Edit: Oh they've got the entire Mayoiga arc to go, rip. We might not even see the mom's flashback arc.


Shenseiken wrote:

Also, thanks for introducing me to CrashCourse. Seems like a decent spring board for some topics.

Sure thing. They do good stuff.

Extra Credits has also branched out into Extra History, Extra Mythology, and Extra Sci-fi, which is pretty cool.
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Posted 3/7/19 , edited 3/8/19

Insomnist wrote:

Extra Credits has also branched out into Extra History, Extra Mythology, and Extra Sci-fi, which is pretty cool.


What a coincidence. I'd never heard of them until just a few days ago when I saw their Wendigo video suddenly popping up in my recommendations. It was interesting.
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Posted 3/7/19 , edited 3/7/19

PhantomGundam wrote:

What a coincidence. I'd never heard of them until just a few days ago when I saw their Wendigo video suddenly popping up in my recommendations. It was interesting.

Their game design videos that started it all are godmode. Like the one that covered the MDA paper.

It's a take on core aesthetics and genres I've applied widely outside games after learning about it.
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Posted 3/8/19 , edited 3/8/19
Dang it! We finally get a Modao Zushi AMV but it both spoils everything and is set to Celtic flute music.
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Posted 3/8/19 , edited 3/8/19
Psycho-Pass is getting a season 3. Never expected that. Hopefully it's not disappointing like season 2.
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Posted 3/8/19 , edited 3/8/19

PhantomGundam wrote:

Psycho-Pass is getting a season 3. Never expected that. Hopefully it's not disappointing like season 2.

The new movies should give us a clue when we get them. Last one opened in theaters today in Japan and it's supposed to move the story forward (the other two were side stories I think). So a third season should springboard off of it.

Edit: S2 was longer ago than I thought, fall 2014 apparently. Still incredulous thinking about it.
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