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Study: More Noncitizens May Have Voted Illegally in Elections Than Previously Thought
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Posted 6/23/17 , edited 6/24/17
This is big. Foreigners really are influencing our elections but its not the Russian government thats the problem. A study was done and it concluded that between 1.2 and 3.6 million voted in the 2012 election. The elections have been pretty close and it would only take a small change in votes to flip states one way or the other.

http://www.justfacts.com/immigration.asp#electoral_2012



In the 2012 Harvard/YouGov survey:

-- 14% of self-declared non-citizens stated they were registered to vote, and 9% stated they “definitely voted” in the 2012 U.S. presidential election.
-- database matches with consumer and voting records showed that 22% of non-citizens in the database were registered to vote, and 12% voted in the 2012 U.S. presidential election.[1033]

* Based on:

-- the number of non-citizens in this poll,[1034] the margin of sampling error for their self-declared registration and voting is about ± 4 percentage points with at least 95% confidence.[1035] [1036] [1037]
-- the number of non-citizens in this poll who were in the database,[1038] the margin of sampling error for their self-declared registration and voting is about ± 6 percentage points with at least 95% confidence.[1039] [1040] [1041]
-- these self-reported registration/voting rates and Census Bureau population estimates, 2.0 million to 3.6 million non-citizens stated they were registered to vote, and 1.0 million to 2.6 million said they voted.[1042]
-- these database-matched registration/voting rates and Census Bureau population estimates, 3.2 million to 5.6 million non-citizens were registered to vote, and 1.2 million to 3.6 million voted.[1043]

* The uncertainties of the 2008 Harvard/YouGov survey also apply to the 2012 survey. In addition, the following factor could understate the number of non-citizens registered or voting:

-- Unlike the data for the 2008 Harvard/YouGov survey, the 2012 data cited above does not provide a total figure for the number of unique non-citizens who said they registered/voted or were recorded in the database as registered/voting. Instead, these figures are isolated in the 2012 data, and the overlap between them is unknown to Just Facts.


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Posted 6/23/17 , edited 6/24/17
They had a legitimate reason to, with Trump running and all. After the email leaks and reactions of sanctuary city mayors it's not something I think democrats would mind.
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Posted 6/23/17 , edited 6/24/17
we live in a republic, not a democracy. the people have the minority vote anyways.
and hillary won the vote of the people anyways, but didnt get elected, so i dont really see this as an issue.
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Posted 6/23/17 , edited 6/24/17

nemoskull wrote:

we live in a republic, not a democracy. the people have the minority vote anyways.
and hillary won the vote of the people anyways, but didnt get elected, so i dont really see this as an issue.


' yeah till they start stealing states, by bussing illegals to states to swing close swing states in order to push the election in their favor.
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Posted 6/23/17 , edited 6/24/17

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


nemoskull wrote:

we live in a republic, not a democracy. the people have the minority vote anyways.
and hillary won the vote of the people anyways, but didnt get elected, so i dont really see this as an issue.


' yeah till they start stealing states, by bussing illegals to states to swing close swing states in order to push the election in their favor.


I just think that if I was an illegal I wouldn't be anywhere near a voting station. I'm just trying to fly under the radar so I don't get separated from my family. Why would I risk everything by trying to vote? The logic doesn't hold up. And some white people want to put me on a bus and have me go commit voter fraud in another state? Fuck. That. Noise.
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Posted 6/23/17 , edited 6/24/17

kinga750 wrote:


Darkphoenix3450 wrote:


nemoskull wrote:

we live in a republic, not a democracy. the people have the minority vote anyways.
and hillary won the vote of the people anyways, but didnt get elected, so i dont really see this as an issue.


' yeah till they start stealing states, by bussing illegals to states to swing close swing states in order to push the election in their favor.


I just think that if I was an illegal I wouldn't be anywhere near a voting station. I'm just trying to fly under the radar so I don't get separated from my family. Why would I risk everything by trying to vote? The logic doesn't hold up. And some white people want to put me on a bus and have me go commit voter fraud in another state? Fuck. That. Noise.


'That is why democrats are against voter ID... making it so no one can tell if they are illegal or not.
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Posted 6/23/17 , edited 6/24/17

Darkphoenix3450 wrote:

'That is why democrats are against voter ID... making it so no one can tell if they are illegal or not.


But the risk is still there. When you are living against the law, you don't take risks like that. It would be even easier to bus in Americans from out of state, but nobody is suggesting that happens right?
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Posted 6/23/17 , edited 6/24/17

kinga750 wrote:

But the risk is still there. When you are living against the law, you don't take risks like that. It would be even easier to bus in Americans from out of state, but nobody is suggesting that happens right?


They took the risk of going over the border, obtaining a stolen social security number, getting a drivers license, and working while having to report to the IRS. At this point I doubt they feel like its even a risk when no one asks for verification.
Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/26/17
..............................................................................................................................
error 404 brain not found this topic is so stupid that my brain stopped working and is right now replaced with the ost from doom
And btw voter fraud laws are designed to impact minorities
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/15/do-voter-identification-laws-suppress-minority-voting-yes-we-did-the-research/?utm_term=.70da0d677281
also if say 100 people cast fake votes but to prevent taht we stop 100k from voting is that really worth it
if youre to ask this guy yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvw2Is0pLM\
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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/24/17

Kefkapwnsall wrote:

..............................................................................................................................
error 404 brain not found this topic is so stupid that my brain stopped working and is right now replaced with the ost from doom
And btw voter fraud laws are designed to impact minorities
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/15/do-voter-identification-laws-suppress-minority-voting-yes-we-did-the-research/?utm_term=.70da0d677281
also if say 100 people cast fake votes but to prevent taht we stop 100k from voting is that really worth it
if youre to ask this guy yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvw2Is0pLM\


Don't pretend to be helping minorities while also acting like they are somehow dumber or incapable of going to the DMV. They are just as capable as the rest of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs

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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/24/17

nemoskull wrote:

we live in a republic, not a democracy. the people have the minority vote anyways.
and hillary won the vote of the people anyways, but didnt get elected, so i dont really see this as an issue.


We live in a representative democracy IE a republic the founders were famous for interchange republic and democracy all the time they understood that we are both. It wasn't until the 70's when the Republicans started pushing the idea that we are a republic up until then we had been called a Democracy still are as I stated a representative democracy.

As for the original poster this would be fake news they are posting or more propaganda from the right in an attempt to distract from the real problem. Which means when you actually dig into the numbers they claim you will find there isn't much there. Nor would there be since our system of elections works hard to catch in person voter fraud which is what the person is claiming. On the scale they are claiming it would be pretty clear what was happening.
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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/24/17

Rujikin wrote:


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

..............................................................................................................................
error 404 brain not found this topic is so stupid that my brain stopped working and is right now replaced with the ost from doom
And btw voter fraud laws are designed to impact minorities
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/15/do-voter-identification-laws-suppress-minority-voting-yes-we-did-the-research/?utm_term=.70da0d677281
also if say 100 people cast fake votes but to prevent taht we stop 100k from voting is that really worth it
if youre to ask this guy yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvw2Is0pLM\


Don't pretend to be helping minorities while also acting like they are somehow dumber or incapable of going to the DMV. They are just as capable as the rest of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs



Because it is racist and you have to provide proof of residence when registering to vote the term you are looking for is poll tax and it effect minorities and elderly more. See the problem is the fact that the more folks vote the fewer republicans get into office. Now we have one other problem which is gerrymandering but that problem just went before the Supreme court and I expect them to rule in favor of the people which will end that stupidity right quick.

See I love your talking points they have been debunked time and time again maybe you should get your money back on them.
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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/26/17

gvblackmoon wrote:


Rujikin wrote:


Kefkapwnsall wrote:

..............................................................................................................................
error 404 brain not found this topic is so stupid that my brain stopped working and is right now replaced with the ost from doom
And btw voter fraud laws are designed to impact minorities
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/02/15/do-voter-identification-laws-suppress-minority-voting-yes-we-did-the-research/?utm_term=.70da0d677281
also if say 100 people cast fake votes but to prevent taht we stop 100k from voting is that really worth it
if youre to ask this guy yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvw2Is0pLM\


Don't pretend to be helping minorities while also acting like they are somehow dumber or incapable of going to the DMV. They are just as capable as the rest of us.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBxZGWCdgs



Because it is racist and you have to provide proof of residence when registering to vote the term you are looking for is poll tax and it effect minorities and elderly more. See the problem is the fact that the more folks vote the fewer republicans get into office. Now we have one other problem which is gerrymandering but that problem just went before the Supreme court and I expect them to rule in favor of the people which will end that stupidity right quick.

See I love your talking points they have been debunked time and time again maybe you should get your money back on them.


Just because you want something to be racist doesn't make it racist. What I find racist is that you people think minorities are somehow incapable of obtaining a state issued ID as if they are stupid or something. They are just as capable as you or me.

Proof of residency is not a tax. Do you even listen to yourself?
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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/24/17
Worth noting that this number in the millions is extrapolated from a total of 39 people who said they voted despite being non-citizens. With numbers that small, you have a pretty huge margin of error.

Also, virtually everybody actually involved in the original surveys disputes these claims.

Heres a blurb from the New York Times about an earlier study done with the same polling data:


[The repolling of the same group of people in 2010 and 2012] allowed the study’s critics to check whether people were consistent about their answer on the citizenship answer from year to year. If the people were consistent, they were probably noncitizens. If voters were inconsistent, it would be a sign that the category was contaminated by the tiny number of voters who misreported their citizenship.

There was not much consistency. Between 2010 and 2012, 20 voters switched from being citizens to noncitizens (an extremely unlikely transition), and 36 others switched from noncitizens to citizens (a more common transition, but one reported at a far greater rate than typically occurs). These shifting answers strongly bolster the theory that many of the respondents logged as noncitizens had responded in error.

But most important, among the 85 respondents who said they were noncitizens in both 2010 and 2012 — those most likely to really be noncitizens — none had voted in the 2010 midterm elections.
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Posted 6/24/17 , edited 6/24/17

sundin13 wrote:

Worth noting that this number in the millions is extrapolated from a total of 39 people who said they voted despite being non-citizens. With numbers that small, you have a pretty huge margin of error.

Also, virtually everybody actually involved in the original surveys disputes these claims.

Heres a blurb from the New York Times about an earlier study done with the same polling data:


[The repolling of the same group of people in 2010 and 2012] allowed the study’s critics to check whether people were consistent about their answer on the citizenship answer from year to year. If the people were consistent, they were probably noncitizens. If voters were inconsistent, it would be a sign that the category was contaminated by the tiny number of voters who misreported their citizenship.

There was not much consistency. Between 2010 and 2012, 20 voters switched from being citizens to noncitizens (an extremely unlikely transition), and 36 others switched from noncitizens to citizens (a more common transition, but one reported at a far greater rate than typically occurs). These shifting answers strongly bolster the theory that many of the respondents logged as noncitizens had responded in error.

But most important, among the 85 respondents who said they were noncitizens in both 2010 and 2012 — those most likely to really be noncitizens — none had voted in the 2010 midterm elections.


Ding ding ding. Thank you, not that it'll dissuade guys like Rujikin from preaching this as the gospel but I think there are people out there who might understand how skewed this data is. Especially with the tiny sample size.
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