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Post Reply Not using right trans pronoun in Calif could put people in jail (LGBT Long-Term Care Resident Bill of R
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

octorockandroll wrote:

Also figured I should point out that the higher suicide rate is from external causes, originating from the way trans people are treated rather than the simple fact that they are trans. It's an important detail I find great pleasure in bringing up given how much it triggers stupid people.


You cannot prove, with evidence, that the increase of suicide rate after surgery and treatment is due by majority to societal treatment alone. Yes, it goes without saying, that the treatment of those with gender dysphoria is a significant factor--however, even without this factor many experience nontrivial distress regarding their gender that may or may not be resolved with current treatment methods. Current treatment is not effective as it could be, and being satisfied with current methods is not a desirable resolution. There is still much to learn about sex differences and the abnormalities that influence having a intense dissatisfaction with one's body/gender.



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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17

PrinceJudar wrote:


octorockandroll wrote:

Also figured I should point out that the higher suicide rate is from external causes, originating from the way trans people are treated rather than the simple fact that they are trans. It's an important detail I find great pleasure in bringing up given how much it triggers stupid people.


You cannot prove, with evidence, that the increase of suicide rate after surgery and treatment is due by majority to societal treatment alone. Yes, it goes without saying, that the treatment of those with gender dysphoria is a significant factor--however, even without this factor many experience nontrivial distress regarding their gender that may or may not be resolved with current treatment methods. Current treatment is not effective as it could be, and being satisfied with current methods is not a desirable resolution. There is still much to learn about sex differences and the abnormalities that influence having a intense dissatisfaction with one's body/gender.





The research I found strongly suggests that the hjgher suicide rate is due to factors not caused by being transgender.

Suicide Attempts among Transgender and ... - Williams Institute - UCLA.edu
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/18/17
This shit kinda makes me hope the Muslims win.
Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/20/17
Am I the only transgender person that doesn't support this kind of stuff? I mean it 100% seems to drastic. Why even consider something like this?

I mean really going to jail for the not using the right pronouns. I mean I can admit I don't like it, I won't get mad or anything. Personally & truthfully I would be completely embarrassed, You would literally see my face become red but that's just me lol, but to throw someone in jail for it is a bit to far in all honesty.
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14 / F / California
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/19/17
The feds will come down on them like a ton of bricks. Free speech and all that. Plus being a "little fucking bitch" knows no genders.
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/19/17

VZ68 wrote:

The feds will come down on them like a ton of bricks. Free speech and all that. Plus being a "little fucking bitch" knows no genders.


Feds? No supreme court rulings..

Seriously can you stop pretending to be a 14 year-old female...
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/19/17
A: "So what you in for?"
B: "I robbed someone"
A: "oh alright, what about you?"
C: "I destroyed stuff"
A: "i see, and how about you?"
D: "I didn't use the proper pronoun when talking to a transgender"
ABC: "thats really evil man.."
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Posted 8/18/17 , edited 8/19/17

exiledcourtney999 wrote:

Am I the only transgender person that doesn't support this kind of stuff? I mean it 100% seems to drastic. Why even consider something like this?

I mean really going to jail for the not using the right pronouns. I mean I can admit I don't like it, I won't get mad or anything. Personally & truthfully I would be completely embarrassed, You would literally see my face become red but that's just me lol, but to throw someone in jail for it is a bit to far in all honesty.


It's not just messing up, it's doing it repeatedly and on purpose. Not on the level of 'honest mistake', but on a 'I'm disrespecting who you are as a person out of my own will with full knowledge I'm doing it'. I'm often misgendered and I don't get mad for it, but there's a clear difference between someone not knowing any better/making an honest mistake/still adapting to change and someone doing it out of malice. The law would take care of the later.
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Posted 8/19/17 , edited 8/19/17

PrinceJudar wrote:

If you have a better suggestion for treating these patients, love to hear it.


Not using pronouns at all with those residents. It's in the original post.


octorockandroll wrote:

What Canadian law puts people in jail for misgendering? Oh right, there is none but people spin C-16 to pretend it means that. I'm so sick of that bullshit, C-16 put gender identity into the human rights code and banning discrimination on the basis of gender identity. That's nothing like "not using the right pronoun could put you in jail" and honestly, if you're going to misrepresent that bill so much, I don't trust you not to do the same for this new Californian one.


Haven't read the Canadian one. The California one does say it is unlawful to not use the preferred pronoun. The punishment for violators is spelled out to include jail term up to one year. What's so vague about that?


exiledcourtney999 wrote:

Am I the only transgender person that doesn't support this kind of stuff? I mean it 100% seems to drastic. Why even consider something like this?

I mean really going to jail for the not using the right pronouns. I mean I can admit I don't like it, I won't get mad or anything. Personally & truthfully I would be completely embarrassed, You would literally see my face become red but that's just me lol, but to throw someone in jail for it is a bit to far in all honesty.


I would guess that you wouldn't be the only one since it IS indeed going too far.

If a LTC worker finds it objectionable or too much fuss to use pronouns then a compromise could be worked out where pronouns are not to be used and first names to be used instead.

It's much easier to remember to just not use pronouns on some people, rather than remembering individual instances of what amounts to specialized grammar:

I mean I wouldn't want to memorize how to use which pronoun in which sentences with whom that demands which specific set.


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Posted 8/19/17 , edited 8/19/17

PumpkinHat wrote:

This can't be constitutional. Surely this won't actually happen...right?


Anyone who has taken any low-level jurisprudence class knows this isn't constitutional.
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Posted 8/19/17 , edited 8/20/17
Can we cut off California now?
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Posted 8/19/17 , edited 8/19/17

nanikore2 wrote:

Not using pronouns at all with those residents. It's in the original post.


Is it really easier to refer to people avoiding pronoun use than using he/she? Not that I'm opposed, just seems astronomically more difficult.



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Posted 8/19/17 , edited 8/19/17

PrinceJudar wrote:


nanikore2 wrote:

Not using pronouns at all with those residents. It's in the original post.


Is it really easier to refer to people avoiding pronoun use than using he/she? Not that I'm opposed, just seems astronomically more difficult.





Through my reading of the bill, referring to the person by name instead of using a pronoun would be fine (assuming the preferred name was being used) so this seems like even more of a non-issue.
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Posted 8/19/17 , edited 8/19/17

nanikore2 wrote:

Why isn't any of the usual news outlets reporting this?

http://www.californiafamily.org/2017/ca-bill-to-make-criminals-out-of-those-refusing-to-use-transgender-pronouns/

After a similar law passed in Canada, California gummit decided to do something similar. It's introducing a bill that could put long term care workers in jail FOR UP TO A YEAR for refusing to use transgender pronouns.

This is utter nonsense.

The following is from an authoritative site that I've searched up on transgender pronouns:

https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/


What are some commonly used pronouns?
She/her/hers and he/him/his are a few commonly used pronouns. Some people call these “female/feminine” and “male/masculine” pronouns, but many avoid these labels because not everyone who uses he feels like a “male” or “masculine.”

There are also lots of gender-neutral pronouns in use. Here are a few you might hear:

They/them/theirs (Shea ate their food because they were hungry.) This is a pretty common gender-neutral pronoun and it can be used in the singular. In fact, “they” was voted as the Word of the Year in 2015.

Ze/hir/hir (Tyler ate hir food because ze was hungry.) Ze is pronounced like “zee” can also be spelled zie or xe, and replaces she/he/they. Hir is pronounced like “here” and replaces her/hers/him/his/they/theirs.

Just my name please! (Ash ate Ash’s food because Ash was hungry) Some people prefer not to use pronouns at all, using their name as a pronoun instead.

Never refer to a person as “it” or “he-she”. These are offensive slurs used against trans and gender non-conforming individuals.


Let's say that some worker in a LTC facility thinks a sentence such as "Tyler ate hir food because ze was hungry" is nonsensical and doesn't roll off the tongue, so instead use only the name as in "Tyler ate Tyler's food because Tyler was hungry"? It's within acceptable usage and isn't a slur.....

...........Yet that person could STILL get hauled to jail for not using the "right" pronoun.



Odd, so if I pronoun it incorrectly I'll go to Jail for a year? Isn't that bit overboard?
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Posted 8/19/17 , edited 8/19/17
So, basically the liberals want to shut down all freedom of speech, refuse the business of people they don't like (godaddy and google vs. daily stormer), but want a different set of rules if you refuse to bake cakes or host a gay wedding.

Yep, I voted for Bernie, and the democrats in the last election. Don't think I'll be doing that again. Now don't get me wrong, I don't like Trump; it's just that now I have people (liberals) who I hate more than him.
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