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Post Reply Something I noticed in most mecha anime
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Posted 8/29/17 , edited 8/29/17


there is two movies and yes lord genome i forgot peoples names its been a while

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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17

sinoakayumi wrote:

I could explain this unrealistic plot devices with the cultural demands of individualism, ego-centrism, and looseness. The emphasis on prototypes and ace-customs represent the individualist desire to be unique and exceptional. The overpowerment of those "unique" mechs, along with the emphasis on individual performance over team performance, represent ego-centrism and the underestimation of the contribution by others. The focus on mass killing over mission objectives, along with the lack of discipline, represent the desire of looseness with its high-arousal activities and lack of structured interaction.


Which, to me, wouldn't really represent Japanese culture all that well. Compared to the Western world being geared towards the individual, the East, most particularly Japan, had primarily been about the group. And, we've seen tons of anime that reinforced Japan's beliefs in the group, whether it's shonen battle anime, magic girl anime, the Super Sentai series, or party-based JRPGs.

And to me, this emphasis on the super prototype over the mass production models, and what you said about them, wouldn't really match up with what I'd get in Japanese culture and the material representing it.

But then again, I talked about first-person shooters, they represent Western culture, I found them at their best with team objectives, so of course I would have likely found most mecha anime to be the same way had it not been for all of these super prototypes and ace customs. Right?
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17

Commander_PonyShep wrote:


sinoakayumi wrote:

I could explain this unrealistic plot devices with the cultural demands of individualism, ego-centrism, and looseness. The emphasis on prototypes and ace-customs represent the individualist desire to be unique and exceptional. The overpowerment of those "unique" mechs, along with the emphasis on individual performance over team performance, represent ego-centrism and the underestimation of the contribution by others. The focus on mass killing over mission objectives, along with the lack of discipline, represent the desire of looseness with its high-arousal activities and lack of structured interaction.


Which, to me, wouldn't really represent Japanese culture all that well. Compared to the Western world being geared towards the individual, the East, most particularly Japan, had primarily been about the group. And, we've seen tons of anime that reinforced Japan's beliefs in the group, whether it's shonen battle anime, magic girl anime, the Super Sentai series, or party-based JRPGs.

And to me, this emphasis on the super prototype over the mass production models, and what you said about them, wouldn't really match up with what I'd get in Japanese culture and the material representing it.

But then again, I talked about first-person shooters, they represent Western culture, I found them at their best with team objectives, so of course I would have likely found most mecha anime to be the same way had it not been for all of these super prototypes and ace customs. Right?


You also have to account for different cultures within a nation. Cross-culturally, the higher economic class tend to be more individualistic then the lower class and the Gundam anime series reflects the values of the Japanese high class. You negate the context when you talk about the first person shooters; you talk about a first person shooter game that involve cooperation between different players on equal footing and this could promote collectivism and theory of mind. The focus on team objective could encourage discipline that is not seen on many mecha anime with overpowered protagonist.
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17

Commander_PonyShep wrote:


sinoakayumi wrote:

I could explain this unrealistic plot devices with the cultural demands of individualism, ego-centrism, and looseness. The emphasis on prototypes and ace-customs represent the individualist desire to be unique and exceptional. The overpowerment of those "unique" mechs, along with the emphasis on individual performance over team performance, represent ego-centrism and the underestimation of the contribution by others. The focus on mass killing over mission objectives, along with the lack of discipline, represent the desire of looseness with its high-arousal activities and lack of structured interaction.


Which, to me, wouldn't really represent Japanese culture all that well. Compared to the Western world being geared towards the individual, the East, most particularly Japan, had primarily been about the group. And, we've seen tons of anime that reinforced Japan's beliefs in the group, whether it's shonen battle anime, magic girl anime, the Super Sentai series, or party-based JRPGs.

And to me, this emphasis on the super prototype over the mass production models, and what you said about them, wouldn't really match up with what I'd get in Japanese culture and the material representing it.

But then again, I talked about first-person shooters, they represent Western culture, I found them at their best with team objectives, so of course I would have likely found most mecha anime to be the same way had it not been for all of these super prototypes and ace customs. Right?


Perhaps it is a result of wanting to be an individual in a society that values people as cogs of a larger machine that drives anime to this, similar to how sexual fantasies are played out for individuals least likely to have them. It may be representative of an urge that many Japanese youth in particular experience. I do not know, just a guess. It may be of a yearning to go against the grain. For example, Death Note is said to fulfill that urge for many fans, most notable when people wanted Light to win, if but not to render the whole anime "meaningless". This is against the fact that the author clearly portrayed Light as a villainous figure at several points, by using Kiyomi and Misa as pawns (Kiyomi in particular), sacrificing them, and him saving his sister purely for his own gain. They may have wanted to have a power fantasy of something considered immoral or not within reach, such as a desire to render justice with impunity.

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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17
The main issue i have with this, is if a single unit can be that effective, Like i see some Gundam shows.
It seems pointless to construction anything less. If one ship can kill your whole fleet, as if it was nothing.

I did like how in Knights of Sidonia, the main characters uses an older model.
But that is because he grow practicing with the older model. The new model had its control system upgraded to become more electric then mechanical. He is first started with the new model he was horrible, because he had years of practice simulating with the older system.
So as a character his machine was different, but that didn't' make him better, years of practice made me better.

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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17
Naruto. Goku. Ichigo. Kirito. They all share this feature even if it isn't in the form of a robot. I don't want to over-analyse it. "Power fantasy" explains the whole thing IMO and from this point of view, it is the same across genres.
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17
Have you seen Majestic Prince? Each member of Team Rabbit has a unique role on the battlefield.
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17
Code Geass didn't completely have this...for a while...I mean, sure Kallen had her cool Guren, and the Four Holy Swords get their own...but Lelouch does not have some crazy epic Knightmare frame till most all the main characters, on either side, have one.
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17
Realistically, the ace custom and prototypes are there to sell model kits in great variety and the narrative is there to give you excuses on why they exist. That said, there ARE logical reasons for why ace customs and prototypes see play and some make more sense in some series than others.

Ease of control is one of the biggest ones for me. Let's look at War in the Pocket and Gundam 0079. As Christina says about the Gundam Alex, when you dial up the responsiveness and power output of a mech to ridiculous levels, it becomes infinitely harder and harder to control. Using Char's Zaku and his 3 times faster meme as a further example, can you imagine dialing up the speed and responsiveness of your car 3 times? I know I would have at LEAST 3 times more wrecks. So most mass produced suits are tuned for ya know, actual people to handle them and not ridiculous Newtype jank.
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/30/17

Lord_Jordan wrote:

Code Geass didn't completely have this...for a while...I mean, sure Kallen had her cool Guren, and the Four Holy Swords get their own...but Lelouch does not have some crazy epic Knightmare frame till most all the main characters, on either side, have one.


What about Suzaku Kururugi and Lancelot? The latter's a super prototype.
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/31/17
Great point, but I think every show has something along those lines and we end up calling anything outside that norm "weird". I remember someone saying a while back that AoT is basically a typical mecha anime in disguise, and I couldn't agree more. I just can't help but think that every adventure story is a lot like the typical mecha plot. From a plot perspective it wouldn't make sense as to why an oppressed group couldn't fight back if they already had the means to overtake an oppressor. I think this is why you have that common 'glimmer of hope' mech that gets plugged into every other mecha. It might also kill the flow of a battle story, either you would end up with a story that ends way too fast or focuses so much on battles that nothing else is allowed to happen outside of those types of events. If you're looking specifically for the shonen/war themed shows I don't think you can get past this feeling ever. Sure, some shows might offer something unique and enjoyable, but the "us vs the more powerful them" theme is a basic plot device necessary for action. I'm reminded of how people hate CGDCT type shows because nothing ever happens in them.

Hopefully you've watched http://www.crunchyroll.com/aldnoahzero
but it seemed very typical to me. Still a great watch though.

If you consider it a form of mecha, http://www.crunchyroll.com/god-eater
had potential for that teamwork type fighting style, but was wasted pretty badly. In my opinion anyway.
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/31/17

Commander_PonyShep wrote:

Usually, whenever I watch a mecha anime, the main-protagonist mecha is mostly either a super prototype or ace custom, the one mecha that possesses more strength, speed, durability, and firepower than the mass-produced models, despite the former being a test-bed for mass-produced models, and the latter just being customized from said mass-produced models. Rare exceptions to this include Super Dimension Fortress Macross and Armored Trooper VOTOMS, but other than that, the main-protagonist often gets a prototype or custom unit that could massacre entire waves of mass-produced units alone.

But due to my frequent exposure to team-objective first-person shooters, I've come to realize that military combat is often a team-based affair. Soldiers are often put together in centralized units dedicated less to kills and more to securing objectives. But because most mecha series I've watched from beginning to end, as well as others I haven't watched yet, mostly feature a super prototype or ace custom that could slaughter dozens of mass-produced models on their own, that they take away from the experience of watching what are otherwise war dramas.

So how can I see mecha series the same way I would team-objective first-person shooters, if there is almost always a prototype or custom unit that could kill dozens of mass-produced models on their own, without any backup?


Tell that to Gundam Bael and McGillis Farheed.
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Posted 8/30/17 , edited 8/31/17

itomwisp wrote:

The main issue i have with this, is if a single unit can be that effective, Like i see some Gundam shows.
It seems pointless to construction anything less. If one ship can kill your whole fleet, as if it was nothing.

I did like how in Knights of Sidonia, the main characters uses an older model.
But that is because he grow practicing with the older model. The new model had its control system upgraded to become more electric then mechanical. He is first started with the new model he was horrible, because he had years of practice simulating with the older system.
So as a character his machine was different, but that didn't' make him better, years of practice made me better.



Story logic seems to dictate earlier models and prototypes were made for performance, before realizing that resources were far too limited, or control was too hard to manage for the basic soldier, thus the need to switch to more mass produced models which were able to be outfitted for the standard pilot.


This makes sense, some models require too much of most people, but at this point, I am wondering why AI hasn't caught up yet to make human reaction null.
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Posted 8/31/17 , edited 8/31/17

killer923 wrote:


Commander_PonyShep wrote:

Usually, whenever I watch a mecha anime, the main-protagonist mecha is mostly either a super prototype or ace custom, the one mecha that possesses more strength, speed, durability, and firepower than the mass-produced models, despite the former being a test-bed for mass-produced models, and the latter just being customized from said mass-produced models. Rare exceptions to this include Super Dimension Fortress Macross and Armored Trooper VOTOMS, but other than that, the main-protagonist often gets a prototype or custom unit that could massacre entire waves of mass-produced units alone.

But due to my frequent exposure to team-objective first-person shooters, I've come to realize that military combat is often a team-based affair. Soldiers are often put together in centralized units dedicated less to kills and more to securing objectives. But because most mecha series I've watched from beginning to end, as well as others I haven't watched yet, mostly feature a super prototype or ace custom that could slaughter dozens of mass-produced models on their own, that they take away from the experience of watching what are otherwise war dramas.

So how can I see mecha series the same way I would team-objective first-person shooters, if there is almost always a prototype or custom unit that could kill dozens of mass-produced models on their own, without any backup?


Tell that to Gundam Bael and McGillis Farheed.


Can you please clarify? I don't care about spoilers, BTW.
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Posted 9/4/17 , edited 9/4/17

Commander_PonyShep wrote:


Lord_Jordan wrote:

Code Geass didn't completely have this...for a while...I mean, sure Kallen had her cool Guren, and the Four Holy Swords get their own...but Lelouch does not have some crazy epic Knightmare frame till most all the main characters, on either side, have one.


What about Suzaku Kururugi and Lancelot? The latter's a super prototype.


Yes, that is true, but you said main-protagonist...Suzaku is kind of the antagonist for a while...or at least not the MAIN main protagonist.
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